Help! Nitrite & Amonia Problem

[maca9]

Hi

I have a relatively new tank. 6 weeks old now. The fish were added slowly in line with what the LFS was telling me.

It appears that the most recent addition of 2 clown loaches has tipped the scale and the biological filter is NOT keeping up.

Nitrite is 0.50 mg/l and Ammonia 0.40 mg/l

I have stopped feeding - done water chages of 20-30% each day - and added 2 Nitra Zorb Pouches to remove ammonia and nitrite BUT still there doesn't seem to be a reduction in either.

For the last 4 days.

There now seems to be some problems in terms of fish health. Well visable problems. Possibly very initial stages of White Spot.

From what I have now read on this formum the tank probably had only partly cycled so although it was reading fine for amonia and nitrite with all the fish pre the loaches this bio filter wasn't really established yet.



That said what do you suggest in the short term to save the situation?

I have a PH of 7.0 - Nitrite 0.50 mg/l - Ammonia - 0.40 mg/l - temp 27


I have added salt to assist with the fish handling the nitrite (add maybe even help with the whote spot).

I'm also thinking about stepping back on the daily 25% water change (which have had water conditioner) to only 15% each 2 days? Purely becasue i'm now concerned my daily changes are preventing the additional good bacteria building up?

ANY IDEAS

Thanks in advance

 

[steelhealr]

Sigh...this is the most common mistake people make when starting an aquarium Ammonia kills fish. Get the fish out if you can ...perhaps the lfs will hold them for you and allow your tank to cycle. Nitrazorb is the biggest waste of a purchase..it does NOTHING to reduce nitrites/nitrates to any significant degree. I recommend that you return to the pinned articles on how to cycle your tank. SH

 

[Underwurlde]

IMH you don't HAVE to cycle without fish & with your tank having matured for 6 weeks should be OK.

I'd consider both your Nitrite levels and Ammonia levels to be low, so nothing to worry about there. (the actual TOXIC Ammonia levels are actually 0.00045ppm - consider anything above 0.02 to be nasty - you are a factor of 40 below this). If you have fish in the tank, you will have SOME ammonia in there anyway, simple as! Adding fish will cause the filter to catch up - the bacterial levels in the filters adjust to match the stocking levels (but I guess you knew that).

Do not 'add stuff' to 'make things better' - it's all snake oil & mumbo jumbo as pointed out. Regular water changes is the best you can do. Doing this will NOT impact on your biological filtration as the bacteria do not live 'in the water' anyway (they are sessile).

White spot treatment is a different issue... Drop a PM to a wonderful lady called 'Wilder' - she loves to help!

Andy

PS
I hope you have a big tank. Loaches get big...

 

[thegnu]

nitrAzorb helps with nitrates not ammonia or nitrite. your fish are now getting white spot because of the stress caused by bad water quality. you now need to treat it with a white spot remedy before it gets worse. bacteria will grow to support the bio-load but takes weeks to catch up especially if you put too many fish in in one go. i'm afraid clown loach are one of the worst fish you could have added right now

 

[John59]

I'm against too much med in a new tank it will take longer to cycle increase temp to 37C and do water changes of 25% every day and use UV if it's affordable.

 

[oddball_lover]

I'd consider both your Nitrite levels and Ammonia levels to be low, so nothing to worry about there. (the actual TOXIC Ammonia levels are actually 0.00045ppm - consider anything above 0.02 to be nasty - you are a factor of 40 below this). If you have fish in the tank, you will have SOME ammonia in there anyway, simple as!

But isn't 0.4 mg/l exactly the same as 0.4 ppm?

 

[Underwurlde]

@oddball_lover

Absolutely spot on dude. 0.4mg/l == 0.4ppm

The dropper test kits test for NH3/NH4, i.e. for BOTH Ammonia AND Ammonium, the two are in balance, the percentage of either is related to the pH of the water and to a lesser extent the temperature. From his reading he gave, the ACTUAL amount of Toxic Ammonia is 0.1126%. in other words, 0.1126% of 0.4ppm = 0.00045ppm. Consider a dangerous, leathal amount of Toxic Ammonia to be anything over 0.02ppm means that his toxic ammonia levels would have to rise approximately 40 fold to be nasty.

Clear as mud, no?

The water is not 'bad' (then again it is not perfect, but if my water tested out as this then I'd think, 'so what' change some water, whoop-dee-doo). New fish is the problem, white spot probably came from the damn fish shop, NOT the water - hell, did any of his OTHER fish have white spot BEFORE those new fish??? You HAVE to either qaurantine the new arrivals, or if I were you, take them back and complain!

Andy

 

[maca9]

Thanks for all the advice.

In summary it looks like I can just keep going with the water changes and the bio filter will catch up.

Should I really raise the temp to 37 degrees??? As John said?

Also the guy at the LFS said it may be the "gravel" leeching ammonia back to the tank - in which case replace my gravel and start again. Does this sound right?

 

[Underwurlde]

Raising the temperature will speed the cycling process, but because you have fish in there I would NO WAY go as high as 37°C - that is off the chart! Research the fish you have paying attention to the temperature ranges they are happest at. Pick the fish with the lowest maximum temperature in its acceptable range and aim for that. This way you'll maximise the temperature to aid in speeding up the cycling process and have non stressed fish.

Yes, some substrates can leech ammonia for a period of about 3 weeks after they are first inroduced. Such sbstrates are used in planted tanks and are like a soil for the plants - they are designed to conatain certain essential elements for the plants to live off. I do not think gravel and sand will ever do this as they are inert - I have certainly never heard of this happening. In essence no need to replance the substate and anyway the 3 week ammonia spike procuced by such substrates produce levels of ammonia far higher than what you're seeing.

Listen to what I am saying: The levels you are seeing are barely on the chart - nothing at all to worry about. You are seeing the smallest increase form zero in theese readings becuase you added two new fish to your stock and the bacterial levels in your filter are now playing catchup. This iis NORMAL.

so:

In summary it looks like I can just keep going with the water changes and the bio filter will catch up.

Yes.

Andy

 

[maca9]

Thanks for your help.

The amoni has reduced to below 0.25 but the nitrite is up to 1 mg/l. AND the Whitespot is EVERYWHERE now. 80% of fish.

I have been told by the LFS to stop ANY water changes till the water gets better. Because the canges will prevent the bacteria building up.

HOWEVER your advice makes more sense to me. Dilute the problem which is there and then the filter will eventually catch up.

Please advise as I am feeling your advice is more sound.

Thanks again.

 

[nynex]

What I cant figure out is why are you doing water changes everyday???
Who told you to do this?..You didnt let your tank completely cycle.
You want your tank to completely cycle and build a bio filter....

You should be doing a 20% weekly water change at most, after the tank is established..
Check out sea chem products. They have a product called PRIME. This will reduce
your Nitrite,Nitrates and ammonia to 0. They also have a product called STABILITY.
Which is benficial bacteria and helps cycle your tank. You should have been adding
this from the begining. I cycled my 75 gal Reef tank in 10 days with stability.
Ive been doing this a long time Freshwater and Saltwater..I swear by SeaChem.

How big is your tank? Also dont always take the LFS advice as the right advice.
I found in Freshwater that alot of the people that work at these LFS dont know
what they are talking about half the time. Now Saltwater is different cause alot
of those specialty shops for saltwater are owned and ran by die hard hobbiest.

I would highly suggest picking up a few books and doing research here and on
other websites for advice.

Stop these daliy water changes and add some Prime to your tank. Then add stability.
Your tank will balance out fairly quick. No need to remove the fish..once youve added
Prime and Stability.

As far as white spot...well you need to treat the fish too. I would be worried about
them getting Nitrogen Toxicity from the spiking Nitrite. I would take the infected
fish and put them in your Hospital/QT tank (let me guess you dont have one). Go
to LFS or Petsmart and pick up a 10 gallon tank for $8.99. Dont use any substrate.
Get a top fin 10 filter..those are about $9 at petsmart. Dont put the carbon filter
cartridge in the filter well you are medicating. Keep them in there till about 3
days after the infection is gone. then it will be safe to put them back into the
main tank.

Along with the PRIME and STABILITY. You need to get Parasite Gone
to kill the Ich (follow the doseage carefully).

I would also get some Melefix and Pimafix..these are an anti bacterial and antifungal.
They are all natural and you CAN NOT over dose on them. These are Good to have and can
be added right to your main tank. I melefix my freshwater tank 2 to 3 times a week.

You learned a huge lesson after all of this..No worries we all go through it at first...
The key is research what you re doing...read!!

good luck!!!

 

[pica_nuttalli]

nynex, i have to disagree with your advice with regards to water changes--and i believe that most of the people on here will agree with me.

10% daily water changes are for the benefit of the FISH, not the bacteria colony. exposure to the waste compounds produced duing the cycling process causes long-term damage to fish. daily water changes are definitely in order whenever one detects the presence of ammonia or nitrite in the aquarium and should be continued until the bacterial colony catches up to the waste being produced. otherwise you seriously risk the possibilitiy of the waste levels rising to a toxic amount before the nitrogen cycle restabilizes. and even if a toxic level is never reached, any exposure to these waste products is unhealthy and will cause permanent, low-grade internal damage in many species.

Stability is unlikely to actually house beneficial bacteria unless it is packaged with a significant amount of oxygen in the bottle--these bacteria are aerobic and will die if kept in anaerobic conditions for too long. This issue can be resolved by keeping the bacteria refrigerated (i.e. in a lowered metabolic state) which is the case with other "bacterial additives" such as Biospira.

I definitely won't argue with the use of Prime for a decholorinator; it's a great product.

The only last thing that I'll point out is that just because something is "all natural" doesn't mean that it's healthy in endless amounts if you don't believe me, then I've got some red berries that I'd like you to chew on for a few minutes... Also, several members of our forum have had terrible experiences with Melafix overdoses, especially in their betta tanks. Like all medicines, Melafix and Pimafix are best used only as needed and in accordance with the instructions on the bottle.

 

[Amunet]

nynex....... I don't know where you're getting your info from, but the OP needs to be doing daily water changes since they have fish in their tank while it's cycling.
Even I know that and I'm pretty newbie-ish when it comes to keeping fish. heh
10% water changes every day should help keep the ammonia and such lvls down to a bareable lvl for your fish.

 

[Underwurlde]

@nynex:

What I cant figure out is why are you doing water changes everyday???
Who told you to do this?..You didnt let your tank completely cycle.
You want your tank to completely cycle and build a bio filter....

Can I ask for your reasoning behind your statement please.

I say again, your levels are fine. What would adding Prime & Stability do exactly?

I would be careful also in adding anti-bacterials - you could kill off your filter bacteria and this WOULD be a disaster...

Regards,

Andy

 

[thegnu]

where did you get your gravel