Help! I Thought Swordtails Were Friendly Fish!

[Hairy_Trev]

Hi Guys and Gals... I hope some people can give their opinions on this situation...
 
Around a month ago, I bought a male/female pair of Red Swordtails (tuxedo?) and added them to my community aquarium. (I would normally have preferred to get double the quantity of females, but at this stage I wanted to make sure they wouldn't treat my plants as a salad bar!)
 
They have been no problem with the other fish (Corys, Cherry Barbs, Neons and Ottos) and while the swordies will often swim together contentedly, I have seen her often swim all the way across the tank, just to smack her fella in the gob! I have noticed her increase in size and the growth of her gravid spot and came to the conclusion that she was pregnant... so.. forst question... is this behaviour just because she's hormonal? Perhaps she resents the male for getting her in that condition, or maybe even that another male did the deed in the shop before I bought her,and she doesn't like another male hanging around? Or could it be a case that she is just mean?

 
Anyway... of more concern to me is the following.. I made a careful attempt to catch her and transfer her into a breeding trap but she obviously didn't want to be caught so I let her be... sadly when I returned from work the following day I found that she had died, probably due to distress.
 
As I had already started to set up a mini tank for the babies (and maybe even as a breeding tank) I replaced her with 2 more females to give the male some company and romantic interest, one a lovely orange with a white underbelly, and the other, a silver with a black tail. They have all settled into their new home with no signs of upset.... 
 
However, The silver female is showing bouts of similar dominance towards the male, but more worryingly, towards other residents. She will quite often nip at the tail of my 3 ottos or the 3 beloved Cory Julii. She doesn't appear to be doing any actual harm or damage, but these small scavangers just want a nice quiet life...
 
So... is this normal? Once again, is she a just a bully? She only seems to go for the small fish which are grey in colour.. is she histaking them for baby swordies? How can I stop her nipping at her tankmates? As soon as the breeding tank is up and running I'll move all three swords into there, but that won't be for a month....
 
Any comments?
 
Hairy Trev

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Male swords are insanely sex driven. I think they will even try to spawn with a rock. They will constantly harass the Fms as a result. Some females will get ticked.
 
Next, female swords can store the male's sprem for a long time. From one mating they can end up spawning 6 or more time without the need of a male. Some people like to put it this way: Female swords are born pregnant. it if very hard to purchase a female sword old to have spawned that is not able to have fry with no need for a male.
 
We are usually aware that some fish groups form pecking orders. But it is sometimes the case that whole tanks have a pecking order. Your new female may just be trying to let the other smaller fish in the tank know she is above them in the chain of things. She may also be pregnant and trying to scare them off. New fry are pretty much on everybody's menu. Most females giving birth in a tank will try to find a place to hide while doing so. One way to maximize fry survival in a community tank is to have a lot of plants, including floaters. Fry are pretty good hiders, it's their only defence.

 

[Hairy_Trev]

Thanks for the thoughts Amin.... as soon as the new tank is set up I wil move all three into there but currently I'm having trouble getting the temperature down...
 
As house room is at a premium, I visited my local petstore and bought a smll competeset up, 7litre plastic tank including filter unit and heater, preset to around 26-27C. I found it was running up arund 32C...  returned the heater to the shop and exchanged it for another... result? 34C!!!
 
By agreement, I have done a test, filling a bucket with 14 litres of cold water and left it overnight with the heater running. It's now warmed to about 27C. Based on this info, the petstore has a 19 litre plastic tank which was returned, unused and they wil exchange this with my own original purchase...
 
Watch this space!
 
Anyone with other opinions on the original question, please feel free to comment

 

[Baccus]

Just wondering what size is your community tank? The aggression you are seeing from the swardtail females could be due to them feeling lack of space, and stressed about wanting to find a safe secure spot to drop their fry.
When you mentioned a 7L tank I hope you where not planning on putting the 3 swardtails for even any fry in it. 7 Litres is way to small for any fish let alone quite chunky and active fish like swardtails and fry that will need plenty of room in order to grow properly.

 

[Hairy_Trev]

Thanks for the further comments baccus... with the original m/f pair of swords, the only aggression seemed to be from the female towards the male, and all other fish were left alone... it is the new silver sword female which is showing more of a nasty streak towards other tank mates and I wondered about why this was...
 
To answer your other question though, it is a 70 litre tank. I have seen no particluar signs of distress or ill health in any of the occupants. Everyone swims around quite happily and shows no signs of lethargy. You comment about females liking somewhere quiet to have her babies... when I set up the tank, I built in an overhang near the top of the rock wall, and modelled a small cave underneath this overhang. My first female seemed to like this area, although she wasn't permanently hiding there... she would often swim around happily too. There is also a large clump of cabomba plant towards the rear corner providing good shelter, and an area behind one of the pieces of bogwood which is very secluded.
 
With regard to your comments on the 7L tank... this was a rapid purchase when I saw my female was pregnant. The idea being that she could be moved into that tank on her own just for a feww days while she gives birth and the tank would then be a safe place for the fry just until they are big enough to be safe in the main tank (or sold/given away). I wouldn't consider a tank that size to be a permanent home for any fish and it upsets me a little that it is marketted as a "betta tank" for a siamese fighter, made of plastic, including filter and preset heater and 'perfectly suited to a single male which would normally live in small pools and doesn't swim fast'!!
 
In fact, things have developed since that purchase... when I first set it up and added water, I found the heater was warming the water to 32C and couldn't be adjusted!!! I went back to the shop and they swapped the heater over for another, in case it was faulty... the temperature was now 34C! When I reported the results back to the shop again, we discussed options and I said I intended to try running the heater in a larger volume of water to see how it behaved. I found the results to be much better and as agreed beforehand, the shop exchanged the 7 litre plastic tank for a 19 litre glass 'starter tank'. Normally this would include a filter but it was missing from the set so it was reduced in price. Evenso, when doing a straight swap, the shop still paid me back the difference in price between my original purchase and the reduced price of the 19 litre tank, eventhough I wasn't returning the filter or hewater unit! I say hats off to them for making sure I finally got something suitable...
 
So.... I now have a 19 litre glass tank, with filter and heater unit which my tests showed would warm 14 litres of water to around 26-27C. This sounds much more promising!!!
 
But once again, it is not intended as a permanent home... it's a maternity ward and nursery.

 

[Byron]

I have a couple things to add now we have the tank sizes.  First, please do not buy more swordtails, as a 70 litre (18 gallon) is no where near sufficient space.  While the swordtails you buy may be "small" now (around 2 inches or less) they need a lot of space to grow properly or they wioll be frustrated, possibly stunted, and certain aggressive and in poor health down the road.  Females are larger, but both reach 4-5 inches in aquaria and may even reach six inches; that is a fair size, and this is an active swimmer.  The aggression noted from certain females may well be due to the space, as they have no escape from the male and as TTA correctly noted, males are feisty.  Aside from the foregoing, the presence of other fish in so small a space will likely aggravate the swords even more.
 
My other comment is on the heater.  Water volume has a lot to do with the accuracy of heaters, but you seem to have this sorted out.
 
Back to the swordtails for a moment...for a trio of swordtails (and always buy two or even three females to one male, but recognize this will mean batches of fry from each of the females) a 30-inch tank around 30 gallons is absolute minimum, and a 3-foot would be much better.  So if space is limited for tanks, please consider smaller fish suited to the space of the 70 litre tank.
 
Byron.

 

[Hairy_Trev]

Comment duly noted and I agree Byron... at first my local aquarium shop advised against livebearers, but not for reasons of size instead his concerns were about the amount of damage they would do to the plants after I'd spent so much care creating exactly what I hoped for. Other advisors said to make sure that the plants are able to recover quickly, hence cautiously buying just a pair at first. When the female died I decided to replace her and to get the better ratio of 2 females to one male but I have no plans on buying any more now.
 
As far as I'm concerned, my tank is now fully stocked
 
Thanks for the further comments
 
Trev

 

[Byron]

Comment duly noted and I agree Byron... at first my local aquarium shop advised against livebearers, but not for reasons of size instead his concerns were about the amount of damage they would do to the plants after I'd spent so much care creating exactly what I hoped for. Other advisors said to make sure that the plants are able to recover quickly, hence cautiously buying just a pair at first. When the female died I decided to replace her and to get the better ratio of 2 females to one male but I have no plans on buying any more now.
 
As far as I'm concerned, my tank is now fully stocked
 
Thanks for the further comments
 
Trev

 
Given the circumstances (I guess I didn't realize you already had these) will the store accept the three swordtails in exchange for other more suitable fish?  The three swords in the 70 litre tank is not good, just in case that wasn't clear previously; they must have more space, three times minimum.  Things are only going to get worse...and not to mention when all these fry start appearing.
 
Byron.