Help: Honey gourami sick dying

[Fishy_Dan]

Hello,

I posted in the emergencies forum but had no response.
Two of my honey gourami are sick, one is in a really bad way and looks like he'll die any moment. The other is not that bad yet, so I'm wondering what I can do to try and help them.

Water parameters are fine, unchanged for months (0,0,20ppm).

Over the last few weeks I've noticed the male lose his colour and become a bit skinny. He's also been less active and less interested in food. Until recently he was still eating but occasionally did a white stringy poop, but now he doesn't do anything except lie on the floor. I keep expecting him to be dead when I next check the tank, but remarkably he's still breathing so far. Yesterday he swam for a while, eractically bumping into things, I think on purpose perhaps due to an itch? He has very faint black marks on his side, which developed when his colour started to fade. Could these be skin flukes? Take a look in the third picture below.

The female has also lost her colour, she's very white now, and spends most of the time upright but sat on the bottom or on a plant leaf. I don't think she is eating much at the moment either, although she is still more active and can swim ok.

The two other honey's are doing fine they're both acting normally, as are the glowlight rasbora and amano shrimp.

So is this just a natural death? Or should I think about treating the tank? If I should treat what should I treat with and will it harm the shrimp?

Thanks for your help.

D

 

[GuppyBreeder180604]

what do the 0, 0, 20ppm mean? if your nitrate is 0 then your beneficial bacteria are probably all dead and your fish are living in an uncycled tank and that is probably why they are dying, try to see any parasites or fungus.
maybe they are just old and their time has come, how old are they?

 

[Slaphppy7]

what do the 0, 0, 20ppm mean? if your nitrate is 0 then your beneficial bacteria are probably all dead and your fish are living in an uncycled tank and that is probably why they are dying, try to see any parasites or fungus.
maybe they are just old and their time has come, how old are they?

0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, 20 nitrAtes is my guess...

If these are dwarf gouramis, have a look at this possibility: https://helpusfish.com/1/17/dwarf-gourami-disease-guide.html

 

[GuppyBreeder180604]

0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, 20 nitrAtes is my guess...

If these are dwarf gouramis, have a look at this possibility: https://helpusfish.com/1/17/dwarf-gourami-disease-guide.html

well i hope the parameters are as you say, an uncycled tank is way too dangerous

 

[Fishy_Dan]

0 ammonia, 0 nitrItes, 20 nitrAtes is my guess...

If these are dwarf gouramis, have a look at this possibility: https://helpusfish.com/1/17/dwarf-gourami-disease-guide.html

Yes, that's right. As I said, water parameters are fine.

Thanks for the link, but honey gourami are different from dwarf gourami, even though they are a small variety! I don't think they are affected by dwarf gourami disease.

What would the signs be of parasites or worms? The only noticable changes in the fish are a loss of colour and lethargy, plus stringy white poop. If you zoom in on the third picutre you might see the tiny black marks on the side of the male. These developed as he lost his colour. Could they be skin flukes?

I bought these fish 6 months ago, so I don't think they're that old.

 

[Utar]

I hate to see this happening to your honey gourami, they are great fish. If you can you need to set up a hospital tank, gouramies need access to the surface to breathe, so the water should be shallow enough so they don't have to struggle for the surface. Before you start any treatments you need to remove carbon from your filter. Carbon removes medications from the water. Raise the water temperature to around 82°. I am still learning about fish diseases, but I am sure your honey gouramies have a bacterial infection and it may be too late to help them. Here is a couple of links for gourami diseases that will help you.

Gourami Disease – Symptoms - Treatments - Signs

Gourami Fish Diseases and Treatments

Common Diseases That Suck the Life of Your Gorgeous Gourami Fish

 

[Fishy_Dan]

I hate to see this happening to your honey gourami, they are great fish. If you can you need to set up a hospital tank, gouramies need access to the surface to breathe, so the water should be shallow enough so they don't have to struggle for the surface. Before you start any treatments you need to remove carbon from your filter. Carbon removes medications from the water. Raise the water temperature to around 82°. I am still learning about fish diseases, but I am sure your honey gouramies have a bacterial infection and it may be too late to help them. Here is a couple of links for gourami diseases that will help you.

Gourami Disease – Symptoms - Treatments - Signs

Gourami Fish Diseases and Treatments

Common Diseases That Suck the Life of Your Gorgeous Gourami Fish

Thanks.

Although nothing seems to fit exactly, my guess would be an internal bacterial infection (stringy white poop symptom). But this could also be due to worms?

Apart from raising the temperature are there any treatments I should give?

 

[GuppyBreeder180604]

Thanks.

Although nothing seems to fit exactly, my guess would be an internal bacterial infection (stringy white poop symptom). But this could also be due to worms?

Apart from raising the temperature are there any treatments I should give?

use a general dewormer then.

 

[Utar]

Thanks.

Although nothing seems to fit exactly, my guess would be an internal bacterial infection (stringy white poop symptom). But this could also be due to worms?

Apart from raising the temperature are there any treatments I should give?

As I said, I am learning about fish diseases, I have read how some have used salt treatments, and melafix. But I am not sure about the results. The reason you want to raise the temp is to aid in the fish's recovery. Gouramies need water temps close to 80° F.
API Melafix Freshwater Fish Infection Remedy

 

[Essjay]

Stringy white poop is a sign of intestinal parasites or an internal protozoan infection.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

In the UK we can use:
eSHa ndx for round worms
eSHa gdex for flat worms
NT Labs Anti Fluke and Wormer or Maidenhead Aqytics own brand AquaCare Anti Fluke and Wormer for both round and flat worms.
Unfortuately we can't get metronidazole (for internal protozoan infections) without a vet's prescription.




Melafix (or Pimafix or Bettafix) should not be used with anabatids as it contains aromatic oils which can affect the labyrinth organ. It's more akin to us using an antispetic on a cut than a cure.

 

[Fishy_Dan]

Stringy white poop is a sign of intestinal parasites or an internal protozoan infection.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

In the UK we can use:
eSHa ndx for round worms
eSHa gdex for flat worms
NT Labs Anti Fluke and Wormer or Maidenhead Aqytics own brand AquaCare Anti Fluke and Wormer for both round and flat worms.
Unfortuately we can't get metronidazole (for internal protozoan infections) without a vet's prescription.




Melafix (or Pimafix or Bettafix) should not be used with anabatids as it contains aromatic oils which can affect the labyrinth organ. It's more akin to us using an antispetic on a cut than a cure.

Thanks. Will either of these harm inverts? Any advice on which one to choose, or is it trial and error on which type of worm is the problem?

 

[Essjay]

The problem with worms is knowing which ones. The NT Labs/Aquacare med kills both (I think they may be the same product, with NT Labs making the one for Maidenhead Aquatics to sell under its own label) but the page on NT Labs website says it kills invertebrates.
eSHa ndx says "We did not observe any negative effect on crustaceans" but it doesn't mention snails.
eSHa gdex says "We did not observe any negative effects on crustaceans, snails and clams"

Do you have inverts? Which type, shrimps or snails?

 

[Fishy_Dan]

I have amano shrimp.

The female who is looking ill did something really strange yesterday. She went up to the surface to breath then immediately did an out of control back flip before spiraling down to the ground again. I saw it again when she took a breath a little later. I wonder if it's a labrynth problem for her? Can't imagine worms would cause that?

 

[Essjay]

Things like nerite snails are easy to remove from the tank to somewhere else, but shrimps are not.


To be honest, I think the string poop is a red herring. There's more going on with the gourami than intestinal parasites - and internal bacteria infections can also cause stringy poop. And there could be other things going on as well.


The problem is working out what exactly is the cause. But I know little about diseases, so I'm afraid I'm not much help

 

[Fishy_Dan]

No you've been a big help. Thanks for engaging.

Working out the cause is nearly impossible it seems. I don't want to treat the tank for the sake of it. I haven't got a quarentine tank. So without a clear understanding of what's going on my only option really seems to be to leave things to take their natural course. I just hope by doing that the other currenlty healthy fish are not affected.