Help... Going Crazy Over Whether To Use C02 Or Not!

[Marisa_allen]

Hi all,

I am attempting to set up a 28 gallon tropical tank after a 5 year break from the hobby. I have spent a long time getting advice from the pinned articles which have been a fantastic source of help, however I still have a few questions that I cannot find answers to.

Here is my intended set-up so far:

Tank 36” L x 12” W x 18” D
28 UK gallons
43.2 inches / 120cm fish max community fish that will tolerate the water parameters (still too much I think)
Medium planted tank with Moderate light requirement plants
Laterite base topped with fine lime free gravel
Current tap water conditions:
PH 8.6 / ammonia 0 / nitrate 10 / nitrite 0.2 / dKH 12 / dGH 17.1
Water temp will be 24°C
using Eheim external filter 2222

Now my main worry is the C02.
This is what I am intending to do in terms of lighting.

2.32 watts per gallon powered by a 1 x 15w Dennerle special plant tube and either:
2 x 25w 30” Hagen life glo tubes
or Interpet Daylight plus
or ZooMed Ultra Sun
or Arcadia freshwater
effectively giving a total of 65W light.

After much deliberating I had decided to not use C02. However I am a little over the borderline for wattage and keep worrying that I will have made the wrong decision if I dont use it.

I love planted tanks and intend to cover 50% of the tank with plants, however I am not intending for them to grow inches by the week. I am hoping that a slightly slower growth would still fend off the algae.

If you unanimously decide I really do need a C02 unit I have had a look at the Nutrafin system which is affordable, however does anyone know if it can be turned off at night and do I really need to put the whole thing in the tank! Its massive!

If I made my total lighting wattage just under 2 wpg and then did away with the C02, how much would I need to limit my plant stocking by and how much can I expect them to grow and fend off the algae? Would I be able to increase my stocking level?

The other questions I have are, there seem to be a lots of different stocking level calculators, one from www.thinkfish giving me a stocking level of 200 cm! Surely this cannot be correct! I need an accurate calculator that allows me to enter details about having a heavily planted tank, C02 and 02 levels etc.

My buffering capability of my water should be fine as its so damn hard, and I am choosing plants and fish that will tolerate a broad spectrum of pH and hardness, so I hope that when the hardness and pH does drop it wont affect them too much.

Another thing there does not seem to be power units for tubes that are 25w, can I use a 30w pack? I was intending to buy a Hagen double Glomat 30W. (Am I being silly but I didnt think a 36" tube could go in a 36" tank as there is no room to add the power caps, in the past I have put 30" 25w tubes into the tank. I also looked at the T5 Interpet system but have been put off by the number of people camplaining about melting parts!

In the past I have spent so much time trying to lower pH and hardness that I just want to make things a little simpler for me. One step at a time! I think otherwise i am just giving myself too much to cope with. And then there is this EI thing, (which I havent even started to look at yet, help) I dont think my little brain can take it any longer! Please dont tell me if I do go with C02 I would need to do this EI thing!

Thanks SORRY THIS POST IS SOOOOO LONG!

Brain overloaded, confused but excited!

marisa

 

[kamel_007]

It's depend on your plant's,,

If your tank heavily planted, so go on..

And you should improve your water values.. Especially PH,KH,GH

And that's depend too of the fishes you want to get...

 

[Marisa_allen]

Well last time I managed to reduce my dGH from 17 to around 10, my dKH I dont think altered much from 12 to 10, my pH didnt budge and I used a simple C02 system with a pressurised canister which was attached by an airline into a tube (sanders floramat I think), very cheap anyway. It was was too much for me to tackle all at once and I dont want to repeat the experience again. That is why I am hoping I can do without the C02 to make matters a little more simple!

I had zebra danios, hatchet fish, corys, to be honest I cant remember what else I had.

Last time I had so many problems trying to alter the parameters of my water I thought it would be far easier to work with what I had, so I have chosen plants and fish that will thrive within these tolerance, the plants that will grow fast within medium light intensities, ie Vallisneria, hygrophilla, ludwiga, some species of echinodorus and a few algae busters recommende on this site.

As for fish I am hoping to include

Neons
Hatchet fish
Cheery barbs
Flying fox
Corys

marisa

 

[zig]

Hi Marisa

Sooooo many questions, i will try and answer a few and hopefully make things a bit easier for you.

Ok well first thing is that we auctually measure watts per gallon (WPG) in US gallons, not imperial UK gallons, so this means your intended target of 65 watts will auctually work out at approx 1.9 WPG given that your tank is 34 US gallons approx.

At 2 WPG i would expect you to get algae if you did not use CO2, so given that you will end up with 1.9 WPG i would say you are still borderline, a simpler solution would probably be to lower the light a little further to 1.5 WPG by useing 2x25watt 30" inch tubes giving you a total of 50 watts, and this works out at 1.5WPG, which IMO is perfect for a low to medium light tank which will not require CO2 and will also require little maintainence but at the same time grow at a nice pace.

If you wanted to still go with the 1.9WPG you could consider dosing Seachem flourish Excel instead of using CO2, excel is an organic alternative to CO2 in liquid form which would work quite well at that amount of light, the only downside is that excel costs money, but its not hugely expensive and it is a viable alternative to using CO2, but the 1.5WPG solution is probably a lot easier.

You can still have an excellent planted tank at 1.5WPG and it something you could consider, i will let you think about that much for now, any more questions just fire away and ask, welcome to the forum btw especially the planted section........good choice B)

 

[Marisa_allen]

Hi, thanks I think you have given me the answer I wanted to hear! Reasonably good plant growth without the need for C02. I guess when I have become a little more experienced I can always go down that route as I can just increase my lighting and add C02 (and read up more on the subject!).

Also all of my plants I will be purchasing are either very easy or easy to maintain and will grow in low-high light intensities, so hopefully will be ideal for an upgrade to C02.

If I go with the 2 x 25" watt tubes, will I still benefit from using a dennerle plant tube as I am not particularly too keen on the yellowy orange lights. Could I get away with using 2 of the same tubes that I had singled out, Life glow etc?

Thanks for the info.

marisa

 

[zig]

Marisa i will let somebody else comment on the Dennerle tube as i have never used one, but as far i can recollect they give a very yellow light which personally i do not like, i usually stick to tubes in the 6000k to 7000k range as these normally are most like natural light, i would definatly consider the Interpet daylight range of tubes as a good option, these tubes are rated at 6500k and give a very nice natural light without being cold or to warm in colour.

 

[George Farmer]

The Dennerle tubes do have a very low colour temperature (3000K) and roduce a very yellow/orange warm light, not to everyone's taste as you've mentioned. They are good for plant growth though and minimise potential algae due to their very low blue and non-UV content.

They are bearable in my experience if balanced out with a cooler tubes (higher K rating). I've had good results with Arcadia Freshwater Lamps, Interpet Triplus, Interpet Daylight Plus, Hagen Life-Glo and most recently Sylvania Activa 172. Unfortunately these good, cheap Activa tubes are not available in 30" or 36" sizes.

 

[Marisa_allen]

I was looking at the Hagen Life Glo and noticed that there are 2 types the standard and a life glo 2. Which one would you recommend?

 

[George Farmer]

The original Life-Glo has an internal reflector. Half of the inside of the tube is coated with a reflective substance to boost intensity. These are consquently more expensive and not as efficient as using a purpose built reflector i.e. Arcadia or Juwel due to the restrike (light bouncing back and forth thus being wasted).

The Life-Glo 2 tubes are standard so you can fit your reflectors.

They are good tubes but seem to be more expensive than the other commonly available full-spectrums i.e. Interpet Daylight Plus, Triplus and Arcadia Freshwater (not Original Tropical - these are low-intensity).