Help Appreciated

[AstonN24vantage]

hi all. i have 2 red eared slider hatchlings. They are currently living in a 10 gallon tank that i just purchased. when i left the fish store to buy the tank, i realized that i had forgot gravel, and it's probably going to be closed for the long weekend. anyway, i had a little bit of clean gravel at home (gravel is too big for the turtles to swallow) so i put it in, but by no means is it enough. i also have some gravel from an old fish tank, that last had ich, and i accidently overdosed with copper and the whole tank was blue. anyway i took the gravel out and washed it out atleast 20 times. i was wondering if it would be safe to put with the turtles. almost all of the blue is gone, and i have water conditioner that i use for my fish that is supposed to remove copper. would it be okay?

 

[fishnovice]

Turtles don't need gravel. They are very messy - 100 times worse than common plecs!Most people including me keep them in bare bottom tanks as it's much easier to keep tank clean with frequent water changes. Wouldn't risk gravel contaminated with copper

For further advice on keeping baby sliders speak to Wayne at Turtle Rescue Centre. They also sell special highly nutritious food specially made for baby turtles and all profits from food go towards rescuing and keeping abandoned pet turtles which are becoming a serious problem in UK.He's helped me a lot when I started keeping turtles 7 months ago. I now have 5 adults and 5 babies and get all their dry food from Turtle Rescue Centre.
TURTLE RESCUE CENTRE
www.turtlerescue.net

07951033456 0R 01255508713

E-MAIL wayne.rampling@sky.com

CONTACT...... WAYNE RAMPLING

 

[AstonN24vantage]

well, that makes life easier. i am thinking about investing in a filter, but i am quite confused right now. the water level is low enough for them to stand up to get air, and i am afraid that if i fill up the tank more they will not be able to breathe. they do have a basking area, but then that would be flooded. the turtles are just hatchlings. do you mean that the turtles will swim in their own feces? how often should i clean that up?

should i condition or declorinate water? any chemicals that i need to add?

cheers
sam

 

[AstonN24vantage]

would the gravel even be safe for fish?

 

[AstonN24vantage]

bump...

 

[AstonN24vantage]

bump!

 

[fishnovice]

would the gravel even be safe for fish?

With tiny hatchlings you can do daily water changes as I do with mine but you will definitely need a filter soon which means you won't have to change water so often but turtles are VERY messy, much worse than any fish.. Filter will need to be cycled unless you can use old filter sponge from existing filter to get it started and speed up the process. Also you must dechlorinate water with dechlorinating chemicals like Stresscote etc after every water change or you will kill the filter bacteria, same as with fish.

Turtle babies can swim quite well and won't drown. Turtles can stay under water for a few mins before they need to come up for air and they can breathe when swimming at the surface but must have rock or floating turtle dock to rest on and dry out their shells.With deeper water, use larger rocks!5cm of water should be enough for tiny hatchlings.
In winter turtles will need water heater and basking lamp. a spot light bulb above their tank 3 hours/dy will do tiil you can get a UV lamp.You must keep them warm or their bodies will slow down ,they stop eating and go into hibernation mode which is bad news as turtles can't hibernate in tank as they need to bury themselves in deep mud for hibernation.
Not a good idea to have gravel with turtles, axolotyls and frogs as thye can all swallow it and die but gravel is OK for fish and some species like cichlids actually need gravel.
Any more questions, feel free to ask me. I started keeping turtles 8 months ago and now have 10, three species and all sizes from adult to hatchlings.

 

[AstonN24vantage]

okay. for right now i use a desk lamp with the round light bulb, not a spiral bulb, because it produces a lot of heat. keeps the tank at around 75-80ºF. i took the gravel out. if you don't have a filter do you still need to dechlor the tank? i have read that the turtles do fine with chlorine.

thank you so much for your advice. it is really needed. you may be the fish novice but i'm barely even a turtle novice (it was my brothers idea to get them )

 

[Asp]

Filtering turtles is a bit of a strange one.

You're never going to get a situation as you would with a fish aquarium where the filter is housing bacteria that reduce nitrates and amonia etc. etc.

What it will do is help get rid of the crap. Get a purely mechanical filter with sponges and wash it out every few days in tap water. Do water changes whenever the water looks a bit mucky.

The water turn over and waste levels are going to be far to high to bother with cycling etc, its really just about keeping things clean. These days the water changes for my brood come straight from the tap (with a little dechlor). All the bottled 'terrapin water treatments' are pretty much a waste of time.

Plenty of bunches of cheap oxygenating plants (elodea in particular, but I also buy bags of watercress from the supermarket cheaply) also help maintain water quality, and provide a tasty nutritious snack!


Also - RES are pretty #41#### hardy, their natural range extends well into the north of the mainland US (sometimes as far as Michigan). In a tank indoors (assuming you're not in the frozen north) they will not go in to 'hibernation mode' and do not need heating. If you're comfortable in the room so are they. They will slow down a bit in cooler temperatures but this is fine and natural, particularly if you ever want to breed them in the future as establishing 'seasons' is relatively important. I have in the past overwintered large RES in tubs in a cool part of the house, they don't hibernate but slow right down. Reducing their food during this period also is beneficial.

I have never heated any terrapin from the mainland US (Tropical species - S. American, African and Austrailian are a different matter)and I live in London.

 

[AstonN24vantage]

thank you for your help. i guess i should get a filter then. no problem then.

 

[fishnovice]

Filtering turtles is a bit of a strange one.

You're never going to get a situation as you would with a fish aquarium where the filter is housing bacteria that reduce nitrates and amonia etc. etc.

What it will do is help get rid of the crap. Get a purely mechanical filter with sponges and wash it out every few days in tap water. Do water changes whenever the water looks a bit mucky.

The water turn over and waste levels are going to be far to high to bother with cycling etc, its really just about keeping things clean. These days the water changes for my brood come straight from the tap (with a little dechlor). All the bottled 'terrapin water treatments' are pretty much a waste of time.

Plenty of bunches of cheap oxygenating plants (elodea in particular, but I also buy bags of watercress from the supermarket cheaply) also help maintain water quality, and provide a tasty nutritious snack!


Also - RES are pretty #41#### hardy, their natural range extends well into the north of the mainland US (sometimes as far as Michigan). In a tank indoors (assuming you're not in the frozen north) they will not go in to 'hibernation mode' and do not need heating. If you're comfortable in the room so are they. They will slow down a bit in cooler temperatures but this is fine and natural, particularly if you ever want to breed them in the future as establishing 'seasons' is relatively important. I have in the past overwintered large RES in tubs in a cool part of the house, they don't hibernate but slow right down. Reducing their food during this period also is beneficial.

I have never heated any terrapin from the mainland US (Tropical species - S. American, African and Austrailian are a different matter)and I live in London.

 

[fishnovice]

Filtering turtles is a bit of a strange one.

You're never going to get a situation as you would with a fish aquarium where the filter is housing bacteria that reduce nitrates and amonia etc. etc.

What it will do is help get rid of the crap. Get a purely mechanical filter with sponges and wash it out every few days in tap water. Do water changes whenever the water looks a bit mucky.

The water turn over and waste levels are going to be far to high to bother with cycling etc, its really just about keeping things clean. These days the water changes for my brood come straight from the tap (with a little dechlor). All the bottled 'terrapin water treatments' are pretty much a waste of time.

Plenty of bunches of cheap oxygenating plants (elodea in particular, but I also buy bags of watercress from the supermarket cheaply) also help maintain water quality, and provide a tasty nutritious snack!


Also - RES are pretty #41#### hardy, their natural range extends well into the north of the mainland US (sometimes as far as Michigan). In a tank indoors (assuming you're not in the frozen north) they will not go in to 'hibernation mode' and do not need heating. If you're comfortable in the room so are they. They will slow down a bit in cooler temperatures but this is fine and natural, particularly if you ever want to breed them in the future as establishing 'seasons' is relatively important. I have in the past overwintered large RES in tubs in a cool part of the house, they don't hibernate but slow right down. Reducing their food during this period also is beneficial.

I have never heated any terrapin from the mainland US (Tropical species - S. American, African and Austrailian are a different matter)and I live in London.

Thanks that's great advice. Didn't have any cress but tried duck weed and the two female maps loved it!Would appreciate some advice regarding overwinteriing maps and yellow bellies. What exactly do you do in the tubs you mentioned, with or without water, do you feed them at all?
Some of my adult maps and the male yellowbellyhave stopped eating already when it got cold 10 days ago .Hatchlings and young maps are fine. I live in London too in a cold draughty old house which is impossible to heat. Indoor temp with heating on is around 15degrees at best in Dec-Feb, colder at night when heating goes off.I wear fleeces indoors but turtles can't! I'm fairly new to turtles though learning fast but I've only had them in spring and summer. Mine live in unheated tanks and went outside regularly in the daytime for exercise and sunbathing in a secure pen with artificial turf.Just moved them to huge indoor tank for winter,

 

[Asp]

The adults will naturally require feeding less frequently than the hatchlings anyway. What are you feeding them on?

These were big adult RES (12"), when it got really cold we used to just put them in plastic boxes with just enough water to cover them in a cool part of the house and they'd basically just sit there for four months or so. You can offer them food every week, they might eat it, they might not.

However, if yours are in a large tank I'd suggest leaving them be and keeping an eye on them, again they are very hardy animals, particularly the maps, strangely, even though their natural range is more southern.

The idea of an 'excersise' pen is a strange one, to be honest I woundn't recomend it. Maps are river system turtles that almost never leave the water (other than to bask) out of choice. They are massively strong swimmers and ideally should live in as large a body of water as you can provide, if possible with an artificial current for them to swim against (though the yellows wouldn't apreciate that so much if they live together). This should provide all the excersise that they need.

Watercress is 99p a bag in my local sainsburys, I normally stretch to a bag or two a month - it goes down very well. Also on eBay you can get a box of elodea (normally sold as 100 plants etc.) for about £4, which is particularly good too.

Which species are you keeping?

Hope that helps,
Alex.

 

[fishnovice]

The adults will naturally require feeding less frequently than the hatchlings anyway. What are you feeding them on?

These were big adult RES (12"), when it got really cold we used to just put them in plastic boxes with just enough water to cover them in a cool part of the house and they'd basically just sit there for four months or so. You can offer them food every week, they might eat it, they might not.

However, if yours are in a large tank I'd suggest leaving them be and keeping an eye on them, again they are very hardy animals, particularly the maps, strangely, even though their natural range is more southern.

The idea of an 'excersise' pen is a strange one, to be honest I woundn't recomend it. Maps are river system turtles that almost never leave the water (other than to bask) out of choice. They are massively strong swimmers and ideally should live in as large a body of water as you can provide, if possible with an artificial current for them to swim against (though the yellows wouldn't apreciate that so much if they live together). This should provide all the excersise that they need.

Watercress is 99p a bag in my local sainsburys, I normally stretch to a bag or two a month - it goes down very well. Also on eBay you can get a box of elodea (normally sold as 100 plants etc.) for about £4, which is particularly good too.

Which species are you keeping?

Hope that helps,
Alex.

Thanks for your advice Alex. I currently have 3 adult maps, 3 baby maps 3in,1 false map, 1 yellow belly adult and 2 yellow belly hatchlings size of 10p coin.They get a varied diet of special turtle pellets, lettuce, ham, dried fish, dried shrimp plus the odd slug or dead guppy/molly/platy from tropical fishtanks.My maps are fine on dey land and enjoy their basking/exercise pen. False map prefers dry land to water and spends most of his time when in tank sitting on a large rock.They really enjoyed swimming when I moved them all into big new tank a few days go.My turtles get on well and are always climbing onto each other and interacting(lots of claw wagging from the boys!)Only started keeping turtles in Feb.Got thrown into it at the deep end when I adopted my first 3 adult maps on impulse as they were about to be dumped into a canal.Since then I've acquired lots of other unwanted turtles. Even the 4 week old hatchlings had 2 previous owners in their short life before I got them.Sad to see so many unwanted turtled being given away for free to anyone who will take them or worse still dumped in rivers and parks.Abandoned turtles are a big problem. You may know that the 2 London rescue centres have caught and rescued over 40 from ponds rivers and parks this summer alone.

 

[Asp]

Belive me, over the years we have rehomed a lot! Unfortunately the rules regarding the import and sale are so outdated its untrue (and often nonsensical! - Banning T.s. elegans, but allowing T. s. scripta and T.s. troostii? they're bassically the same animal!)

I think you may be a little confused about your maps - there is no difinitive 'map' turtle, the genus Graptemys contains 13 species/subspecies of map turtle. The so-called false map is named because it was frequently confused with the (now misleadingly rare) common map.

There are three species commonly imported to the UK - The False map (Graptemys psuedogeographica psuedogeographica), The Mississippi map (Graptemys psuedogeographica kohnii) and the Ouachita map (Graptemys ouachitensis) - All of which look remarkably similar. The key to telling them apart is in the head markings and eye colouration. I'll happily double check if you want me to, just post up some head shots

And you'd be amazed at the things i've seen for sale as 'yellow belly' - anything from common musks to Suwanee cooters!


Also - map turtles spend a lot of their time basking, but they still like to be near the water - its a security thing.

Always good to see another enthusiast around - if there were more like us the rescue centres wouldn't have such a problem!