Help And Guidance Needed Please...

[Harlequins]

Sorry if a bit long,so please bear with me but need to solve this problem if i can..

Well has some of you are aware i'm having major problems with losing alot of trilineatus fry...
My first batch proved successful with no probs and growing well in the main tank,since then theres been a downward decline on keeping fry alive.

From 1st nov i've had 115 fry hatch and upto date i have now have 36 fry,which is a huge drop of survivors.

From what i can remember from being a total novice when i set up the fry tank the first time around,it was bare bottomed 11 litre tank and had a mature sponge filter,temp 24 degrees,airstone etc and i fed them on liquidfry & firstbites.Tank is on a table in the kitchen where it gets normal daylight,and just normal room lighting in the evening.

Since they started spawning regularly since Nov i set up the tank again,this time putting a small layer of sand in the bottom,tank is exactly the same set up except it has a small elite mini filter on slow setting with stocking over the small intake and had mature media in there.

Within a week of setting this up it had a nitrite spike of 1.0ppm,which i lost quite a few fry,twice a day i did 90% w/c just to keep the nitrite down,so i eventually replaced the media with a new lot of mature media,this seem fine for a week or so,then the nitrite came back again

Since then i've been doing 60% w/c,usual sand clean etc,for it to still be showing a tad of nitrite?? with several fry dying each day,and feeding very minimal ,so even doing 2 w/c a day isn't helping

To cut a long story short i put the remaining 24 fry in a trap into my main tank a few days ago and have only lost 1,which was a bit iffy when it went in there,and the new batch of 13 that hatched today in a separate trap.

Now i really want this fry tank to work and not lose fry,i don't know whether to go to bare bottom tank like i did to begin with,then add sand later.i don't know if the filter is iffy,i could try another lot of mature media?,the filter is in my livebearer fry tank ticking over at the moment.
The original sponge filter is also just stuck to the inside of my livebearer tank but not connected to an airpump,would all the bacteria died by now with it not being connected?

I've had fabulous advice in the past,so can anyone help me solve this please if would help me and my fry
Many thanks xx

 

[mattlee]

hi harlequins.
i will be interested in any response to this topic as i too as struggling with dead fry at the minute..... my first batch have grown very well and ive not lost many at all, my second batch most died due to an ammonia spike as i think i was over feeding but not 100% sure and my 3rd batch that are just over a week old seem to be slowly reducing in numbers! i started off with 40 eggs, 31 hatched and i now have 21 fry left.
i do 30% water changes everyday and feed 2x a day using firstbites for now, the fry seem to be dropping off 1 or 2 per day with no apparent reason. they are in a 11L tank with sand substrate, a small heater (25W) and a small sponge filter.
from my first batch i only lost about 7 fry in total and most of them were due to the ammonia spike involved with the 2nd batch as they were in the same tank. the only thing i am doing different is when hatched the first batch went into an empty icecream tub floating in the parents tank and i used the tank water to do the water changes, i then moved them after about 2 weeks into the 11L tank on their own and as i stated i hardly lost any! could it be down to the water being used from the parents tank instead of new water......?
i would like to say i was better at this after the 3rd batch from gaining experience but it seems not..... i am now getting a better hatch rate but less survivors in the long run.

 

[lilacamy931]

That is really odd hon, hope some of the veteran breeders can help you xxx

 

[snowflake311]

If I were you I would go back to what you had at first since it worked. IMO bear bottom is the only way to go for tiny fry. When I had my BLue acara fry I found that what the best way. Also I always added floating plants and I had a snail to help eat left over food. I did large daily WC.some times twice a day. Sadly my fry died when I left for 2 weeks they never got the wc and too much food from my pet sitter.Lesson learned never go on vacation if you have fry.

But cory cats I have not raised yet. But as you know I have some eggs. I plan on doing bear bottom tank with sponge filter low tech. But I think putting fry in a breeding trap is good too as long as no other fish nip at the .

 

[Coryologist]

But cory cats I have not raised yet. But as you know I have some eggs. I plan on doing bear bottom tank with sponge filter low tech. But I think putting fry in a breeding trap is good too as long as no other fish nip at the .

Bare-bottomed tanks are the fastest way to kill all of your Cory fry. A thin layer of sand will prevent bacteria from adhering to the bottom and being transferred to your fry, which will kill them in a day. Believe me - I have tried it both ways. Sand is the only way to go. - Frank

 

[Harlequins]

Thanks

But cory cats I have not raised yet. But as you know I have some eggs. I plan on doing bear bottom tank with sponge filter low tech. But I think putting fry in a breeding trap is good too as long as no other fish nip at the .

Bare-bottomed tanks are the fastest way to kill all of your Cory fry. A thin layer of sand will prevent bacteria from adhering to the bottom and being transferred to your fry, which will kill them in a day. Believe me - I have tried it both ways. Sand is the only way to go. - Frank

I just have a bare bottom tank at the moment,i do clean it with a sponge before a w/c,and i only lost one fry in the past few days,but i think some of this may be down to inchworm's advice about temperature in the fry tank,which was on 24 degrees,and is now at 22-23 degrees,and touchwood i haven't lost any since.
So i will take your advice Frank and put some sand back in and see what happens,
Thank you

 

[Coryologist]

i think some of this may be down to inchworm's advice about temperature in the fry tank,which was on 24 degrees,and is now at 22-23 degrees,and touchwood i haven't lost any since.

Cooler water temps inhibit bacteria growth.

So i will take your advice Frank and put some sand back in and see what happens, Thank you.

Can't hurt to try. You're welcome. - Frank

 

[mattlee]

ive not lost any fry now for 3 days maybe they were just weak fry....! my 1st batch after 3 weeks i didnt lose any more either and they are still going strong so far.
ive read that in some species only about 50% survive anyway, is this true? i find it hard to believe but maybe you can advise better Frank.....
as i said before i am getting a much higher hatching % but still the same survival rate. can i do anything else to improve this?

 

[snowflake311]

But cory cats I have not raised yet. But as you know I have some eggs. I plan on doing bear bottom tank with sponge filter low tech. But I think putting fry in a breeding trap is good too as long as no other fish nip at the .

Bare-bottomed tanks are the fastest way to kill all of your Cory fry. A thin layer of sand will prevent bacteria from adhering to the bottom and being transferred to your fry, which will kill them in a day. Believe me - I have tried it both ways. Sand is the only way to go. - Frank

Good to know. I thought the sand would trap bacteria too but would be harder to clean. I just figured bear bottom would be easier to clean.

 

[Coryologist]

ive not lost any fry now for 3 days maybe they were just weak fry....! my 1st batch after 3 weeks i didnt lose any more either and they are still going strong so far.
ive read that in some species only about 50% survive anyway, is this true? i find it hard to believe but maybe you can advise better Frank.....
as i said before i am getting a much higher hatching % but still the same survival rate. can i do anything else to improve this?

OK. I will try my best to explain my thoughts, observations and experiences on this topic.

1. There are myriad factor that can and will contribute to your success and/or failure in dealing with keeping Cory fry alive. They include, but are not limited to: water conditions, appropriate food at the appropriate age/size of the fry, temperature, light, genetic vigor, filtration, substrate and the list goes on and on.

2. Expecting a high survival rate on each and every spawns is totally unrealistic and although you may have stretches where that may be the case, you will also have stretches where you will have nothing but abject failure. It is the nature of the beast and something you are going to have to come to terms with if you are going to derive any satisfaction and enjoyment in spawning Corys - or any other egg-laying fish, for that matter.

3. Keep detailed notes of what you do and when you do it. In this way you can refer back to previous spawns and discover, for example that you started losing fry a day after you switched to a different food or performed a large water change. It may not always provide the answer, but at least it gives you a point of reference.

4. Understand that even if you spawn Corys for decades, you are still going to have entire spawns that go "belly-up." I certainly do and any Cory breeder that tells you that it never happens to them - well . . . . . . .

5. Have patience. I have been keeping fish for 52 years and am still learning how to keep many of them alive, let alone learning to spawn them. I'm sure that I will never learn all that I require, no matter how long I am at this. May I suggest a more "Zen-like" approach to your fish keeping. It's not a competition between you and other breeders, (unless you are enrolled in a BAP), nor is it a contest between you and the fish.

6. Understand that it is estimated that in the wild, 1% at best of almost all fish fry actually reach breeding age. Through constant experimentation you will develop techniques and a regimen that will be successful most of the time - but again - not always. Until you really grasp the inevitability of failure in raising fish, you will never be able to appreciate the hobby in the purest fashion which should be your actual goal, unless it is how you plan to make a living, which is whole other preposterous concept. Failing to raise a spawn of fish is not a reflection of your fish-keeping skills, nor your manhood. lol. Dealing with the complexities of breeding and raising tropical fish is challenging and can be quite rewarding, but seeking perfection is unattainable and will only sour you on the hobby, if that is your goal.

7. Of course we all want to improve with each spawn that presents itself. That's fine, but it still needs to be tempered with realism and the understanding that it is always going to be fraught with pitfalls and disaster, as well as instances of success and gratification. If we were all able to raise every fry to adulthood, what would be the challenge in that? The joy is in the journey. Generally, once you reach the destination, in no time at all it becomes rather ho-hum. I suggest you enjoy the journey.

Frank

 

[lilacamy931]

Thanks Frank, that was a good read for me especially as just into the world of corys and corys breeding, I had an avalanche start but trying to take a step back now. The cories themselves are fantastic and know what they are doing Thanks for good advice all round

 

[Harlequins]

Thanks Frank for your wealth of experience and your thoughts

I suppose we all strive for the best when we all start out,and can be disappointed when things don't go right,so its fab to have experts on hand who's has the knowledge & experience to pass on to others

 

[fishyfeet]

I wish id had franks advice years ago, i had corys that spawns everyother week, first of all the fish ate the eggs, sometimes there would be little evidence of the eggs at all, then i really started taking notice and removed a few eggs with little or no success, once i caught the corys laying the eggs are removed lots, first of all one or two eggs hatch, i gradually got better and better, until i had about 40 corys all bronze, then they stoped laying, the corys that layed the eggs died last year aged about 5 or 6, the only albino i ever owned, all her young were bronze, and since that lot i hatched 40 of, i havent had any success since and very few spawns. Now if id written it all down, i might be able to repeat what i obviously got right once.

 

[Coryologist]

Thanks Frank for your wealth of experience and your thoughts

My pleasure.

I suppose we all strive for the best when we all start out,and can be disappointed when things don't go right,so its fab to have experts on hand who's has the knowledge & experience to pass on to others.

I am by no means an expert. I am but a lowly fish keeper. Honestly. - Frank

 

[Harlequins]

You may be a lowly fish keeper,but you're an expert in my eyes with all your experience