Hello I'm A Noob To Saltwater

[Jager]

hello everyone,

last year my wife and i decided that we wanted to start up a saltwater tank. well in july we bought a 75g tank we had a 29 and a 55g tank also. we sold the 39 about 5 months ago and gave the 55g away new years eve. so i have had this 75g just sitting in a corner now since July.

monday i was bored to death so i went to the LFS and started asking questions about what i would need to get this tank going. the guy i was talking to said he didn't know much about salt water and that the owner wasn't there, but he could tell me what i was going to need to get started. he told me that i was going to need 75 pounds of crushed coral, power head, 3 stage canister filter, prot. skimmer, UV treatment system, heater, 75 pounds of LR, and high spectrum lighting, and all the test equipment. then he said i would need to get everything running and wait at least 2 months before i could even think of adding a fish to it.
i asked him if i could use sand b/c i liked the look of it over crushed coral. he told me that no one uses said b/c it's to had to clean. so i asked him why he had about 200 pounds of live sand sitting on the shelf then. lol he avoided the question.


so i went to another LFS and he told me that all i needed to get started was a filter, heater, powerhead and either sand or crushed coral, and the salt mix along with a ph 8 buffer and a hydrometer for the sal. of the water. and once my ph temp and sal were stable i could add fish and hope for a 50% live rate. i asked him about a prot. skimmer and he said that i could hold on that for now but would suggest i get in in the up comming months.

so i got 2 different answers so i called another LFS and they said that from what i told them, i would be making a reef tank and could not have more then 2 or 4 fish and that the coral was going to cost me. the funny thing was i said that i never said what kind of tank i was making.

so now i am confused. so far this is what i got. 75g tank stand and 2 48in lights that came with the tank, a 300 watt heater, digital temp gauge, a powerhead, a fluval 405 filter, ans tomorrow i am buying a prot. skimmer when i get off work and will also pick up the sand/crushed coral, salt mix hydrometer and testing equipment, and live rock ???

my question is this. in my tank i want some live rock, fish and a cleaning crew. Not sure if this a fish only with live rock our a reefer, i also would like to have some iverts if i'm able to with this set up. that is the main goal. from what i have been reading i would like to have a sand buttom about 1 to 1.5 inches and maybe 15- 20 pounds of live rock. then i want to get everything running and once i have temp, ph, sal., and get everything else stable then add 4 cheap fish and see what happens. i would think that if i get everything up and running this weekend i should be able to add fish by next weekend as long as all my test come out good. the live rock will be cured and i'll also buy some live sand as well to help speed up the process. so am i missing anything our do you see something that i should to different. I know i am rushing the addind fish process but i am guessing 2 out of the 4 or going to die but i wont add them until the tank is stable. i am just not sure which LFS to listen to. they all have different answers to the same question.

 

[andywg]

There is no correct answer to how to keep a saltwater tank, it's all in what you want to do. I break many of the norms most people live by, but I get along nicely.

I personally would never use a Fluval on a tank of mine, but that is becasue I have had two fail and start leaking, CFC has had a couple go in similar fashion, and I know of quite a few other people who have had issues.

I would prefer to go with more live rock and some powerheads for circulation. It costs a bit more but makes things easier in the long run. If costs is a massive issue, then stick with filters (though expect to make more water changes).

Rather than just get cheap fish (which invariably are damsels which will be a pain to pull out if you don't want them) just get a test kit and wait for the LR to cure. Once the ammonia and nitrite and nitrate have spiked and are coming down, then add a fish. Some will say to add a clean up crew first, but most of the literature I have read (both scientific and hobby based) indicates that fish are far more tolerant to any potential problems at the outset.

If I were buying I would do the below:

Get heater(s)
Get salt
Get a refractometer or hydrometer (to measure salt)
Get a test kit (I don't like API, but Tropic Marin I hve been pleased with. YMMV)
Get normal aragonite sand (don't bother with live sand, the live rock seeds it more than quick enough)
Get Live Rock
Get powerheads (Tunze nano stream or Hydor Koralia are the best - look for 10-20 times the tank's volume to be cycled each hour)

Set all the above up and wait out the curing of the live rock.

However, if you find a good LFS that has CURED Live Rock that is not too far away, then feel free to add a fish or few on the day you set the tank up. I have on more than one occasion with no worries, but you do need cured rock to do this which has already undergone its die off.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

agree with andy, just to add a few points

if you can afford to do so then get a refractometer instead of a hydrometer, much more accurate
re test kits, we've been v pleased with the salifert ones
re the powerheads, the one's andy mentioned are v good, they are more epxensive than 'normal' powerheads but use a lot less electricity so the running costs of the tank will reduce. They do pay for themselves over time so it's worth spending a bit of cash on them.

 

[dilbert]

Depends really much on what should go into the tank therefore (maybe only because of that ) the different statements from the LFS.

When you write somewhere in your post "adding invertebrates" then it depends if mobile or sessile invertebrates. With mobile ones it will be a "fish only with live rock" (FOWLR), with sessile ones it will be a reef (even if you keep only a few insignificant zoas like me ).

How fast you can start depends much on your live rock. If and only if it is cured AND was longer than a few weeks in an established tank AND you get it home within half an hour AND it doesn't get cool in the meantime THEN you got a chance to maybe up and running after a week. But always test your water daily and check that it's constantly 0 ammonia/nitrite for some days.

Here a few comments more;
<a href="http/www.fishforums.net/content/Marine-and-Reef-Chit-Chat/227882/Starting-A-10g-Sw-Tank-kind-Of/" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/content/Marine-a...w-Tank-kind-Of/</a>

And if you don't rely on other filtration then 1 pound live rock per 1 gallon of tank volume is the rule of thumb as the live rock will filter your water (together with the powerheads moving water and oxygen through the porous live rock).


I would only add one fish after another.

For invertebrates is 0 ammonia a must and in case you would like to add sessile one I would really wait at least until your upcoming and almost inevitable brown algae and maybe cyanobacteria outbreaks will have finished because it would be a pain to protect those sessile invertebrates from those outbreaks.

Lightning is only important for sessile invertebrates.

During the time you are waiting you can start reading lots of stuff as it's at first an ample field with lots of ramifications and at second there are really different ways to do it. Not only depending on what animals you're keeping or what budget you have or what conditions you live in but also exist different methods to tackle the same problems as in every field in science and technology that is still developing.

PS:
Sorry for repeating a few points of the above posts but they weren't there when I started mine. I am sometimes somewhat slow here at work when I get interrupted. ;-)

 

[andywg]

if you can afford to do so then get a refractometer instead of a hydrometer, much more accurate

I am not disagreeing, per se but I feel there may be some false confidence in this statement.

A correctly calibrated refractometer will be easier for an aquarist to read and to keep well calibrated (less need for cleaning than a hydrometer) but at the price range we are buying in, both hydros and refractos are pretty much equal in their accuracy. The important thing is being able to read and use your chosen tool correctly, whatever it may be.

For a test on accuracy, try calibrating a refractometer to 0 with RO water and then seeing what it reads for a known salinity of around 35 ppt, many will be quite out. However, calibrating the refractometer at a known level will allow an easier accurate reading from a refractometer.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

if you can afford to do so then get a refractometer instead of a hydrometer, much more accurate

I am not disagreeing, per se but I feel there may be some false confidence in this statement.

A correctly calibrated refractometer will be easier for an aquarist to read and to keep well calibrated (less need for cleaning than a hydrometer) but at the price range we are buying in, both hydros and refractos are pretty much equal in their accuracy. The important thing is being able to read and use your chosen tool correctly, whatever it may be.

For a test on accuracy, try calibrating a refractometer to 0 with RO water and then seeing what it reads for a known salinity of around 35 ppt, many will be quite out. However, calibrating the refractometer at a known level will allow an easier accurate reading from a refractometer.

OK, I'll happily compromise and say that a refractometer is easier to read, thus giving more accurate readings than a hydrometer would.

Generally they are the weapon of choice cost permitting anyway!

 

[Jager]

ok so you guys are saying that i can get this tank up with out a filter, just by having pound for pound live rock? so if i get the protein skimmer and use my powerhead the live rock would do the filtering for me.

 

[BigC]

You need to slow down, there is really an order of doing things (although not hard and fast) an order none the less.
Once you substrate, liverock and salt is in and all the electricals running. You need to be conducting tests first, Temp, pH, SG, Ammonia and Nitrite. The Ammonia will peak and fall off to zero at some point (can be 2-6 weeks) The Nitrite will do likewise. Once these are at zero on your test kits then a large waterchange is called for 25 - 50% then test for Nitrate, if this is below 10 then you can add the cleanup crew (snails and hermits)
Bonking fish in and hoping that you get a 50-50 survival rate from the outset is no way to go.
Take things slow marines are different from tropicals. (not just the salt)
Regards
BigC
When the tank is ready and has cycled fully then add livestock in the following order, only a few at any one time to allow the bacteria in the liverock time to adjust to the increased bio-load.
Cleanup crew first - Corals second - Fish last

 

[Jager]

it does help to read the post first, then you would have know that i plan on waiting until the tank is stable and the test are comming back good.

 

[BigC]

Sorry Jager to sound patronising, maybe I came across as if I knew it all (I can assure you I dont)
I did read your post, and it did look like (to me) you were rushing things a bit, I was just implying to take it nice and slow and reap the rewards rather than a lot of expence, (fish arn't that cheap).
Im not that further down the line from you and it has taken me weeks and still no CUC added.
Regards
BigC

 

[dilbert]

Most people that have a FOWLR of your tank size have some live rock and a skimmer and maybe other filters. But there is no strict rule as much depends on livestock etc.

I think you can do it in two ways:

A.
You know more or less exactly what you want to have in your tank and ask then what is the most common method to set such tank up. That's similar like asking an LFS for assistance, only here you get more opinions and discussions and that looks somewhat safer than to trust a single person.

B.
You try to set up the basics and simultaneously you try to understand why people are recommending this and that. That's far more complicated as you need to spend a lot of time really learning. That's mainly reading, asking, and reading again.

I prefer method B and I simply started with live rock not knowing if I wanted fish at all and being quite sure I didn't want any sessile invertebrates. Then I changed my mind with the time but I had a rough idea what I'm doing on my own.

If you prefer way A then look around or simply ask that question. No one will criticise that sorts of questions. There are many here like that.

Otherwise we will have to explain loads of stuff to you just in case it could interest you.

 

[Jager]

i think what i need to do is just give my way a try and see what happens. since there is really no set way to set and run a salt water tank from what i have gathered, i'll just use my gut feeling. if i happen to wipe out my tank then i guess i'll Know not to do that the next time.

so i do have one question. if i have a 75g tank, and put 75 pounds of live rock in it, then i shouldn't need the fluval 405? if this is right, do i still need a hang over bio-wheel our would i just be using the power head and protein skimmer along with the LR? in which case i could take this Fluval back to the store.

 

[Lynden]

Sounds like your shop owner still likes the pre-Berlin methods.

You can use the fluval but, in my opinion it would be best to load it with chemical media, such as granular ferric oxide. This compound can make a world of difference as it adsorbs phosphate. It is not needed tho'.

 

[@ombomb]

the hydrometer i used to have would swing between 1.020 - 1.030 if i did 3 readings in a row... didn't take me long to buy a refractometer

 

[andywg]

I should perhaps be more clear that a floating hydrometer is at least as accurate at the prices we use as a refractometer. The swing arm hydrometers are far from accurate.

And just because your refractometer gives you the same reading each time does not mean the readings themselves are accurate