Having No Luck With Jawfish...

[zeo]

Hey guys,

I dont know why, but I dont seem to be having any luck at all with pearly jawfish.

The first one I purchursed maybe 1-2 months ago from tropicalfishforyou. It was about 3-4" long and seemed pretty active in the bag.

I did the normal flat bag, add water then release bit, the jawfish swam around the tank and then went into a corner and lay there for a bit.
That was the last I saw of that jawfish, and month later and still no sign of it. (I have searched the tank and around the rocks and gravel, nothiong..)

On monday I went out to my LFS and bought another jawfish. (a bit smaller then the first one but seemed to be very active and friendly).
DId the norm floting bag routine and released into the tank. This time I made sure to keep an eye on it.
At first it was scared of my damsels and kept tryign to hide behind my rocks. a few hours later I found it trying to jump out of the tank. (could hear it jumping up and touching the lid.). I thought havign seen it all day, it should be well and happy by tomorrow.

THe next morning I looked thru the tank, and couldnt see any sign of it. I later came to find its dead mashed body attached to the bottom of one of my powerhead inlets... (even thru its covered with a plastic grill) I dont know how it could of got stuck thru. I have a baby clown (no problems with any of the pwerheads) I also have a eel like wrasse thats fine aswell..


ahhh... they never seem to last more then 24h with me... I dont know what I am doing wrong. I'm really put off jawfish now.
Anyone got any suggestions on anything thats similiar to a jawfish but a bit more hardier? (Btw I am planning on getting rid of my damels soon).

 

[SkiFletch]

Sorry about your losses Zeo, wish I could offer some ideas as to why.

Just wanna dispel any myths about powerheads killing fish. The powerhead just sucked up the dead fish's body into its inlet. Likely the fish died, got a slightly bloated swimbladder so it could float, and got pulled into the powerhead via the current.

 

[Lynden]

Jawfish are not exactly "easy to keep". Assuming you have the required deep sand bed (4''+) you could give them a couple more tries.

 

[zeo]

I've got atleast 4" all the way around my tank.. up to 7" in some areas.

But i dont understand why it doesnt seem to live for more then 24h... could it be my damsels? or something else...

 

[littleme1969]

How long are you aclimatising your fish for before adding to your tank. Floating the bag to equal temperature is just not enough. Its strongly recomended to spend a couple of hours slowly introducing your tank water to the bag, then remove half and start again, until the water is both the same temp and PH etc as your tank water. Than release with the lights off.
Most water that I have had fish delivered in has a much higher PH than my own tank so I spend about 3 hours in total to get the water the same as slowly as possible.
You probably already do this but just thought it would be worth mentioning as some people think half hour floating in the bag is enough.

 

[STD]

How long are you aclimatising your fish for before adding to your tank. Floating the bag to equal temperature is just not enough. Its strongly recomended to spend a couple of hours slowly introducing your tank water to the bag, then remove half and start again, until the water is both the same temp and PH etc as your tank water. Than release with the lights off.
Most water that I have had fish delivered in has a much higher PH than my own tank so I spend about 3 hours in total to get the water the same as slowly as possible.
You probably already do this but just thought it would be worth mentioning as some people think half hour floating in the bag is enough.

IMO 2 hours is good for inverts but much to long for fish

I use a bit of airline and drip water into the bag with the fish for 20 minutes

As to the jawfish they are renowned as jumpers - it probably damaged itself jumping and hitting the lid

When you introduced it did anything bully it?

 

[littleme1969]

So your saying if there PH is 8.4 and mine is 8.0 thats 20 mins will be fine?.. I think you need to check with the experts. Ask anyone who knows anything about importing fish and they will tell you PH shock is a killer!

 

[Lynden]

Well I have been doing this for a few years now and I agree that 2 hours for a fish is way excessive. Before I even knew what a drip acclimation was, I just used the same old "temp acclimate and dump" method and it worked just fine. It will take the fish many hours or days to "get used" to the new parameters anyways, so an extra hour or two will make little difference and may even harm the fish (through oxygen deprivation, overheating, and the sheer stress of being "trapped").

I always recommend using a cup to combine the two waters until the water in the bag is similar to the water in the tank, though even this is superfluous for the hardy species.

Zeo, have you observed the damsels pursuing the jawfish? Jawfish are easily intimidated (even by damsels which are rarely as aggressive as people say) and take hours to find a burrow. Perhaps introducing the fish at night, when the damsels are asleep, would yield better results.

-Lynden

 

[littleme1969]

I would contact the people who sell fish to you and gaurantee them for so many days in the tank, see if they will garantee them after a 20 min session. Because I know what they answer will be! LOL
As for overheating and oxygenation.. the bag is open and fresh water added from the aquarium which is oxygenated, and the lights should be off so no heat, if the fish are floated in the tank with the lights off there is also little stress.
Fish I buy come with a full list of instructions on how to aclimatise fish, and if you dont follow that then you are validating the garantee by doing so. The instructions are there for a reason that being the welfare of the fish!
Ask yourslef this, why is it so important to keep perameters stable in any tank system? this is because fish/inverts/corals etc cant cope with huge swings of any kind.
Yes you are right in as far as it takes a good week to properly get them used to the water conditions, but allowing a slow intro to the water to allow the water perams to get to the same as the tank , will take away that sudden stress factor that you would get from taking it out of say 8.4 and dropping it into 8.0PH.
Ring the people at say Trimar or Tropicalfish4u who inport and sell fish via courier all over the UK, They will be happy to tell you the best way to do it for the health of the fish, and its not floating for 20mins in a bag.
If your water conditions are pretty much the same as the water the fish has been kept/travelling in, then yes a quick aclimatisation to get them back to temp and add a small amount is OK. BUt if you have huge swings as I do, the bigger the swing the longer the time to aclimatise.

Appologies for any spelling..LOL

 

[STD]

I wasn't suggesting

floating for 20mins in a bag

I said I drip water from the tank into the bag over a 20 minute period so the water is thoroughly mixed

Also intruducing at night with the lights off reduces aggresion from the existing inhabitants

 

[Musho3210]

i do 1 hour drips for freshwater fish, my clownfish got 2 hours,

I didnt get them from saltwater fish but this is how i did it:

http/www.saltwaterfish.com/site_11_03/acclimation.php

Also remember some lfs like to keep there sg low (sometimes as far as hypo salinity treatment) to use osmotic shock and kill badies, but most of our tanks are in the 1.023-1.027 range. This is why i love my refactometer, easy to test water.

 

[andywg]

I would contact the people who sell fish to you and gaurantee them for so many days in the tank, see if they will garantee them after a 20 min session. Because I know what they answer will be! LOL

And one only needs to look at all the threads pointing out how different places do different things to know that this is not the best way to look at it. I know one lfs that buys fish from the wholesaler and then (afgter a two hour drive) gives no acclimatisation at all, just takes the bags, cuts them, and pours the contents into the sales tanks.

Fish I buy come with a full list of instructions on how to aclimatise fish, and if you dont follow that then you are validating the garantee by doing so. The instructions are there for a reason that being the welfare of the fish!

No, they are on there because those that sold them believe that is the best way to do it.

Ask yourslef this, why is it so important to keep perameters stable in any tank system? this is because fish/inverts/corals etc cant cope with huge swings of any kind.

Wrong. It is because most corals and inverts cannot cope with large swings in parameters. Read some books on diving reefs. Fish are often seen swimming from hot waters (caught in lagoons in low tide) to cold waters where the temperature difference is so great a heat shimmer effect can be seen at the border point of the temperatures. Most reef fish can live for some time in an SG as low as 1.007, and 1.012 can be handled by very many for a fair amount.

Yes you are right in as far as it takes a good week to properly get them used to the water conditions, but allowing a slow intro to the water to allow the water perams to get to the same as the tank , will take away that sudden stress factor that you would get from taking it out of say 8.4 and dropping it into 8.0PH.

pH difference is a misnomer. Check out the scientific threads and the research posted up by Bignose where it is pointed out that fish can adjust their internal pH very rapidly. What we term to be pH shock is almost certainly a general hardness shock.

Ring the people at say Trimar or Tropicalfish4u who inport and sell fish via courier all over the UK, They will be happy to tell you the best way to do it for the health of the fish, and its not floating for 20mins in a bag.

No, but speak to a large number of people who have kept fish for a long time and they will say it is better to get fish out of water that is full of ammonia and ammonium and into your clean water as quickly as possible. You get a choice with fish, do you want to expose your fish to a small change in pH, or leave them in ammonia for 2 hours?

Just because a large shop does a certain thing does not make it the absolute correct thing to do.

 

[littleme1969]

There are many methods for introducing fish this is true. And you make some valid points, but a fish that is shipped in the correct amount of water wont have high ammonia levels. I just got a shipment from a place and the bags where huge for tiny fish, no way on this planet was that bag full of ammonia Also you are constantly diluting any ammonia by adding the tank water.
If temperature is not an issue then why do all people who sell /keep fish agree that bags should be floated to equal temperature? Just for the fun of seeing it bobbing.
I have no doubt that fish swim from different areas into different salinity, but the magority of fish will live within a small area with no changes what so ever, as it is well documented that due to volume the ocean is a very stable place as far as perameters go. Your talking about a tiny minority and not the majority. Also its the fishes choice to do that and nothing to do with a fish being shipped in a stressed condition and is not equiped in that state to cope with a huge change instantly.
I'm afraid common sense wins here. If there is a large difference between the water perams that your fish are shipped in, and your tank then take it slowly, or you will risk the health of the fish. As for people who have been keeping fish for years.. Yes that is true, but Ive also seen on here people keeping fish for years and doing a pretty crap job of it, and doing it wrong for years!..lol
The fact is that people who inport fish and do it properly know every animal is profit, and if they loose fish due to sloppy practise then they loose money! so I'm sorry but it makes sense to me that they are going to do everything possible to ensure that animal does well inorder that they can sell it. Yes there are people out there who just dont care, so you buy from people who clearly take care of the fish and this shows in the quality and health that you get!
I sell fish all over the UK and have done for 5 years and if people dont follow my intro rules I dont give refunds! I care about the welfare of the fish I breed so make sure people know what I feel to be the best way to introduce them. It works for me and you only have to read my E.bay feedback as proof!

 

[Lynden]

German reef tank pioneer Peter Wilkens once described a reef flat in Sumatra with heavy growth of Sarcophyton. Water temperatures varied between 24 and 40 Celcius during the day, with specific gravity fluctuating between 1.0235 and 1.0165, according to rainfall levels.

The open ocean may be an incredible stable environment, but the environments reefs are located in may or may not be. When I was in Hawaii I examined numerous tidepools with large populations of shrimp, crabs, hermit crabs, blennies, gobies, damsels, dragonets and even some anemones and baby larger fish, all of which are common residents of reef aquaria (I have owned many of them). These rockpools were almost like a fish tank with a big exception; most of them were very, very warm (beyond the "panic temperature" of most reef aquarists), or if fed by a spring, very cool and hyposalinized. That is until the tide came in and the rockpools would, within minutes or even seconds (depending on the size of the pool) revert to "normal" parameters.

 

[Musho3210]

i read somewhere (dont know if it was true) that you only need to temp aclimate corals since when corals close they store water and when they re-open they slowly mix both waters therefor acclimating themselves.