Guppies advice needed...

[FishKids]

I began my first Tropical fish experience with a (12G) Nano cube that I began cycling for several weeks before buying 2 platies. The H2O levels were carefully monitored and about 1 week later (4-weeks total) added 1-Butterfly Loach, 5-Rummy Nose Tetra, and 1-Cardinal Tetra. Four days later I brought a sample of water to the fish store to test and confirm that NH3, NO2, NO3 levels were “0”. A rookie in the store sold me fish that arrived that very day, 3-Neon Tetra, 3-female Fancy-tail Guppy, 1-male Fancy-tail Guppy. The addition of all these fish SO quickly, I learned after the fact, was a one huge mistake. Not withstanding the water being GREAT the guppies ARE having trouble surviving. The day immediately following the male guppy was noticed having slight discoloration on his beautiful orange tail, and 1 of the females stopped eating (…or never ate) and finally died. No sooner than I removed the dying guppy did I noticed the other large female guppy stopped eating as well. She was alive and placed into a separate plastic bag for transport back to the fish store. Well, on the way she gave birth to 25 fry! With a crash course on raising fry I purchased a netted cage and fry food and was on my way. 12-hours later the mother has still not eaten (4-5 days now) and now the only male guppy stopped eating as well. Something is going wrong and I fear losing the mother and that male guppy. All the other fish in the tank are extremely well, including the tiny female guppy that was purchased the same day as all the others. I think the fish were shocked from the delivery, 1st from the wholesaler to the retailer’s tank, and then my tank all in the same day. Max, the rookie sales person said, “I probably should not have sold you the fish on the same day, but I didn’t know they just came in.” Suffice-it-to-say, I could use some professional advice. Thanks. Additionally, the H2O temp is heated and a VERY steady 80-81 degrees

 

[tstenback]

Sorry you are having difficulty. In order for us to offer a solution or possible cause to your problem we require the parameters of your water. Were they all zero? When you cycled what procedure did you use. The answers tothese questions will give us an idea of how to respond to your question.

 

[FishKids]

Appreciate your reply. Hope this helps...

04/14/04 Purchased 12 gallon Nano Cube tank
04/22/04 Purchased 50 watt heater to maintain temperature of 80 to 81 F
05/10/04 Added 2 Fish (1 Sunrise & 1 Mickey-Mouse Platy)
05/11/04 Water Test NH 0 mg/l, NO2 .8 mg/l, NO3 12.5 mg/l
05/13/04 Bi-Weekly Maintenance NH 0 mg/l, NO2 .3 mg/l, NO3 0 mg/l
05/16/04 Added 7 Fish (1 Butterfly Loach, 5 Rummy Nose Tetra, 1 Cardinal Tetra)
05/19/04 Water Test NH 0 mg/l, NO2 0 mg/l, NO3 0 mg/l
05/20/04 Added 7 Fish (3 Neon Tetra, 3 female Fancy-tail Guppy, 1 male Fancy-tail Guppy)
05/20/04 Weekly Maintenance (see maintence chart below)
05/21/04 1 male Fancy-tail Guppy having light discoloration on tail, 1 female Fancy-tail was noticeably sluggish
05/22/04 1 female Fancy-tail died and was removed from the tank NH 0 mg/l, NO2 0 mg/l, NO3 0 mg/l
05/23/04 Of the 2 remaining female Guppies 1 had not eaten for several days and was sluggish & was removed from the tank to be brought back. While in transit to the fish store the sluggish Guppy gave birth to 25 fry IN A PLASTIC BAG! Purchased fry food and a cage to separate the fry from the community
05/24/04 Mother guppy still hasn’t eaten. Now the only male guppy is no longer eating. All other fish are doing well including the smallest female guppy added 4-days ago


Weekly Maintenance (Thursdays) Amounts
Cycle (bacteria nutrifier) -------------------------------- 5.0 ml /10 gal.
Pro Plant (Plant Growth Accelerator) ------------------- 1.7 ml /10 gal.
Freshwater Plant (Plant Supplement) ------------------ 1.7 ml /10 gal.
Test the pH, ammonia, and nitrite levels

Bi-Weekly Maintenance (Every-other Thursday)
25% fresh water replacement ----------------------------
AmQuel (Ammonia Chloramines Chlorine Removal) 00.5 ml / gal.
NovAqua (Slime Coating) --------------------------------- 00.5 ml / gal.
Vacuum Gravel

Monthly Maintenance (Fridays)
Replace Charcoal Filter
Rinse Sponge Filters

 

[tstenback]

Other than the addition of a lot of fish in a short amount of time, you have done an awful lot right. I still find the readings that you are getting odd. Dont know if thats because of the conditioners etc that are being used andthe fact that they might distort the readings. After adding all of these fish you still have 0 ammonia. I would doubt that the initial 2 platies would create enough of a bacteria colony to support the ammonia produced by all these fish. Even if they did there would have to be a nitrite spike and possibly a bacteria bloom. Where are all the nitrates? Plants will sometimes take the nitrates lower but i have never seen a tank with the bioload you have with zero nitrates and i have some pretty heavily planted tanks.
All that aside i realize we are dealing with your tank and the readings have been confirmed. Guppies generally do best in temps around mid 70s. 81 seems a tad high for these guys. Other than that the only thing i can guess at is the stress from the move. Keep us posted.

 

[FishKids]

...I have noticed that you spend lots of time responding to the cries for help around here. Suffice-it-to-say, I thank you immensely for the comments, especially that I "have done an awful lot right". Honestly I was hoping you would be saying just the opposite! I’m with you TOTALLY when you mentioned my reading begin “odd” because I NEVER saw a spike in Ammonia…, just the nitrite on the 11th (05/11/04, Water Test, NH 0 mg/l, NO2 .8 mg/l, NO3 12.5 mg/l) which immediately followed a 50% water change. My ammonia levels have always been 0 mg/l. Weird! I too doubt in such a short time that enough good bacteria is available to support the amount for fish current in the tank…, but how I’m getting good test results is a mystery. Perhaps the Nano cube’s filtration works extraordinarily well? Perhaps I have been vigilant in feeding appropriate amounts of food? Perhaps I WILL see a spike REAL SOON!

The temperature IS high and a problem for the Nano cube with its 24-watt combo bulb (6500k/blue). Left on during the day the temperature reaches 80-81 degrees, and cools at night down to 74 degrees. My logic, getting a 50w heater, was to alleviate the large swing in temperate. Now when the lamps go off at night the heater’s thermostat kicks in and maintains the 80-81 degree consistently. Perhaps I should drop the temperature in the evening slightly?

Never-the-less, here are some closing notes of mine. Late this evening the water tested at these levels NH3 0 mg/l, N02 <0.3 mg/l, N03 between 0 mg/l and 12.5 mg/l. A slightly larger amount of algae can be noticed. It appears as the butterfly loach is sleeping on the job, or perhaps I might just reduce the amount of time the lamps are burning.

Thank again for your help.

 

[tstenback]

10 hours of light is loads for most setups. I agree with your logic of avoiding temp swings by setting the filter to kick in at the max temp. If that is where it is going to stay then i would wait until the tank is more stable, usually 4-6 months and try the guppies again. They dont like it that warm but if the temp was the only thing were adjusting to they might handle it better.
Just a side note... when i purchase guppies i do one of two things. first i will ask the LFS to hold them for me for a couple of days so that the stress of being moved too many time close together is avoided. Some LFS will do this others will not. The second approach for those LFS that wont hold the fish is i wait until the fish have been at the LFS long enough so that if they were stressed during shipment they are now over it and then i pick the strongest looking most active fish. HTH and keep us posted

 

[FishKids]

This morning we found that the mother guppy was sandwiched between the fry cage and the tank unable to move. It appears as though parts of her tail have been rotted or bitten. She and the male guppy are still not eating.

My suspicion is that the platy's are picking on the weakest fish and just HOPE that it's not fin/tail rot. Today both guppies will be removed before their weakness turns to disease that might spread to the other fish.

To recap:
5/20 – (Evening) 4 Guppies were added to the tank. (3 female (1 unknowingly pregnant), 1 male
5/21 – (Morning) Male guppy was with noticeable (bleached) discoloration on the tail
5/22 – (Morning) 1 female died and was removed from the tank
5/23 – (Morning) 1 female guppy stopped eating, was expected to die, removed to bring back to the LFS and gave birth in transit to 25 fry. The male also stopped eating
5/23 – Mother guppy and fry placed back on the tank
5/25 – Both the mother guppy and the male guppy are still not eating. The mother guppy has parts of tail missing. The littlest of guppies purchased 5-days ago is doing well. The fry fish are doing well but under these conditions will likely not survive.