Gsp- Stocking With?

AdAndrews

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Didnt know where to put this really, but i was hoping neale could give me an answer if spare time allows-- basically i was thinking about a gsp, and as i am aware there are no fish you can keep with one-tropical/brackish side considered, but i was wondering if i started one off in fw/low brackish(depending on lfs) and increased slowly to marine as it grows, can i keep any marine fish with it then or not? plus are gsp's reef safe?

thanks
 
GSPs are very variable in terms of sociability. Mature males are likely territorial since they're the ones that guard the eggs. At all ages they may be "nippy" simply because wild fish are reported to feed, in part, on the fins of other fish. So there are at least two factors here that can make GSPs much less trustworthy than other brackish water fish.

With that said, GSPs have been kept in communities. In marine tanks they have been combined with robust damsels as well as different pufferfish species (such as Arothron spp.). Those "punchy" damsels that tend to be bullies in reef tanks, such as humbugs and blue devils, work particularly well. Clownfish seem to coexist with GSPs quite well, too. Given space, things like snappers, wrasse and triggers would be options too, but since puffers are nippy, you'd want to avoid slow-moving things like morays and lionfish, however well armed they might seem.

GSPs are somewhat reef safe. Like all pufferfish, these fish will shrimps, crabs, worms, and molluscs as potential food. On the other hand, polyps are usually left alone. Anemones wouldn't be a good idea though, simply because there's no knowing whether a GSP would understand how dangerous they can be.

As always though, "your mileage may vary". A little time spent with Google should reveal that lots of people have mixed damsels with adult GSPs, but alongside the success stories you'll get the odd tragedy.

Whilst I don't really subscribe to the idea "every puffer is different" -- they are, when all is said and done, animals of very little brain -- it probably is true that every aquarium is different. Issues such as tank space, frequency of feeding, the amount of activity inside and outside the tank likely all come into play. My SAPs and irrubesco puffers have worked in my community(-ish) tank for years without problems, but then I'm working next to them all day, and constantly feeding them, and they're mixed with pretty boisterous tankmates anyway. So they may well have enough stimulation that they don't become nippy. The same fish in a tank with slower tankmates and less attention might behave completely differently. In other words, carefully approach the idea of keeping tankmates with these large, potentially quite dangerous pufferfish.

Hope this helps, Neale
 
GSPs are very variable in terms of sociability. Mature males are likely territorial since they're the ones that guard the eggs. At all ages they may be "nippy" simply because wild fish are reported to feed, in part, on the fins of other fish. So there are at least two factors here that can make GSPs much less trustworthy than other brackish water fish.

With that said, GSPs have been kept in communities. In marine tanks they have been combined with robust damsels as well as different pufferfish species (such as Arothron spp.). Those "punchy" damsels that tend to be bullies in reef tanks, such as humbugs and blue devils, work particularly well. Clownfish seem to coexist with GSPs quite well, too. Given space, things like snappers, wrasse and triggers would be options too, but since puffers are nippy, you'd want to avoid slow-moving things like morays and lionfish, however well armed they might seem.

GSPs are somewhat reef safe. Like all pufferfish, these fish will shrimps, crabs, worms, and molluscs as potential food. On the other hand, polyps are usually left alone. Anemones wouldn't be a good idea though, simply because there's no knowing whether a GSP would understand how dangerous they can be.

As always though, "your mileage may vary". A little time spent with Google should reveal that lots of people have mixed damsels with adult GSPs, but alongside the success stories you'll get the odd tragedy.

Whilst I don't really subscribe to the idea "every puffer is different" -- they are, when all is said and done, animals of very little brain -- it probably is true that every aquarium is different. Issues such as tank space, frequency of feeding, the amount of activity inside and outside the tank likely all come into play. My SAPs and irrubesco puffers have worked in my community(-ish) tank for years without problems, but then I'm working next to them all day, and constantly feeding them, and they're mixed with pretty boisterous tankmates anyway. So they may well have enough stimulation that they don't become nippy. The same fish in a tank with slower tankmates and less attention might behave completely differently. In other words, carefully approach the idea of keeping tankmates with these large, potentially quite dangerous pufferfish.

Hope this helps, Neale

thanks for your help neale... I saw someone on youtube keeping 2 in a 29gallon with a blue damsel, but then again there are some pretty bad things on youtube! So if i start one off in fw, then change the sg by .002(??) each week, and then how old do they have to be until i can increase to full marine- once over a certain size, or time frame?

thanks again Neale :)
 
You can keep a GSP at SG 1.005 pretty well indefinitely, so there's no real urgency to move them to marine conditions. It's freshwater conditions that harm them: both brackish and marine conditions suit adults equally well (though it seems they reproduce in seawater, if the viability of sperm under lab conditions is any indicator).

That said, I'm not aware of juveniles being acclimated to marine conditions, so I'd not move them from brackish to marine until the fish was at least 8 to 10 cm long.

Cheers, Neale

I saw someone on youtube keeping 2 in a 29gallon with a blue damsel, but then again there are some pretty bad things on youtube! So if i start one off in fw, then change the sg by .002(??) each week, and then how old do they have to be until i can increase to full marine- once over a certain size, or time frame?
 
Thanks neale 8 to 10, the marine thing isnt definate, i mean i will need to look into it, but it may be a nice change, something different to learn about(not saying im not learning in fw, but) hope i could benefit from live rock and maybe a couple of fish if the gsp is understanding and agree's to share his quaters :)

thanks again
 
Yes, the reason people keep GSPs in marine conditions is largely that they're "easier" fish -- you have skimmers and live rock for water quality, and damselfish as colourful companions.

There are of course brackish water damsels, but they aren't traded much. Equally, while skimmers will work in brackish conditions, they work less effectively. Live rock works in brackish water, just as it would in freshwater, so far as bacteria go -- but you do lose all those wonderful marine invertebrates and algae!

Cheers, Neale
 
Yes, the reason people keep GSPs in marine conditions is largely that they're "easier" fish -- you have skimmers and live rock for water quality, and damselfish as colourful companions.

There are of course brackish water damsels, but they aren't traded much. Equally, while skimmers will work in brackish conditions, they work less effectively. Live rock works in brackish water, just as it would in freshwater, so far as bacteria go -- but you do lose all those wonderful marine invertebrates and algae!

Cheers, Neale


yeah, gotta love them critters!
is it true i will have to take the gsp out when i put the live rock in when the switch happens?

and am i correct hearing you say in the past go up in sg of 0.002 as this wont be enough to harm the filter bacteria? so if i do this every 2 weeks, it will be fine?

thanks
Adam
 
is it true i will have to take the gsp out when i put the live rock in when the switch happens?
Can't think why this would be necessary. It would be easiest to keep the fish in the tank, and raise the salinity over the course of, say, a year. Once at SG 1.024 or thereabouts, you could add the live rock.
and am i correct hearing you say in the past go up in sg of 0.002 as this wont be enough to harm the filter bacteria? so if i do this every 2 weeks, it will be fine?
Small changes are certainly better, and if you're doing them over a year, then what you suggest is eminently do-able. On the other hand, do use your nitrite test kit to make sure the tank has settled down, and personally, I'd leave the tank running at a given level for a few weeks before raising it further. So go 1.000 to 1.002 first, and leave it running a month. Then to 1.005, and leave it running another month. And so on...

Cheers, Neale
 
is it true i will have to take the gsp out when i put the live rock in when the switch happens?
Can't think why this would be necessary. It would be easiest to keep the fish in the tank, and raise the salinity over the course of, say, a year. Once at SG 1.024 or thereabouts, you could add the live rock.
and am i correct hearing you say in the past go up in sg of 0.002 as this wont be enough to harm the filter bacteria? so if i do this every 2 weeks, it will be fine?
Small changes are certainly better, and if you're doing them over a year, then what you suggest is eminently do-able. On the other hand, do use your nitrite test kit to make sure the tank has settled down, and personally, I'd leave the tank running at a given level for a few weeks before raising it further. So go 1.000 to 1.002 first, and leave it running a month. Then to 1.005, and leave it running another month. And so on...

Cheers, Neale

ok, yeah, i spose a month is probably better, i hear gsp's dont grow that quick. I do test water levels all the time until my tanks are about 2 months old, then its just weekly water changes of 30%, 50% on planted tanks :rolleyes:

where does brackish stop and marine begin- at 1.024 and then marine is 1.025?

:good:
 
There's no hard-and-fast cut-off point. For all practical purposes, SG 1.018 at 25 C is "marine" since you can keep virtually all marine fish species at that salinity very successfully. Incidentally, 26 ppt, or SG 1.018 at 25 C, is about 75% normal marine salinity.

Indeed when I started keeping fish in the early 80s, it was standard practise to do so for fish-only tanks. Lower salinity was cheaper for one thing, but it was also said to make the fish healthier, supposedly because at lower salinity their osmoregulatory systems weren't working so hard. Perhaps parasites were less of a problem, too. In any case, damsels and the other hardy species kept at the time thrived in such conditions. Technically, they were being kept in brackish water systems.

Cheers, Neale

where does brackish stop and marine begin- at 1.024 and then marine is 1.025?
 

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