Green Under The Gills

[newtomarine]

Hello all,

I have been looking at your forum for a while now and you have all given me some great advice but I still have a few questions if anyone can help me?

I have just won a 210 Ltr tank on Ebay which I want to use as my first Marine tank....I've kept tropical boring fish for 7 years so I do know a little but not as much as you guys. I have also read 2 books on marine tanks but there are some areas I'm still confused on.

My questions are:

1) To save on cost I have been told that I can mix Ocean Rock with LR and eventually the good bacteria will spread all over eventually making a lot of LR. Is this true and how long would it take?

2) When should the live rock go in? should it be immediatly or should I wait for any toxic chemical levels to drop...I guess immediatly but some advice would be great

3) I was planning of using a Fluval 405 or FX5 as a Biological filter, is this advisable or should I look at other makes / models etc

4) With regards to skimmers after reading these forums I get the feeling that whenever I see a Red Sea Prism Skimmer I should smash it to a million pieces with a hammer. Is this true? are they that bad or can you recommend a better one for my setup

5) I would like to use a sump but frankly I'm quite scared of them. It appears I have to either drill a hole in the back of the tank ( this is scary ####) as an overflow down to the sump and then have a pump bring it back up. Or I have a pump from the main tank pumping to the sump and then another one back up again, this method also scares me because surely if one of the pumps fail I would either have a flooded house by the time I get home or a pump working away in a dry sump because the inlet pump has failed??

Can someone reasure me.

I think thats it for now, thanks for all your help

 

[Chac]

1) To save on cost I have been told that I can mix Ocean Rock with LR and eventually the good bacteria will spread all over eventually making a lot of LR. Is this true and how long would it take?

Your gonna need about 50 – 60 kg of Live Rock for that IMO Ocean Rock is a bit to dense for my liking, I personally would use Reef Bones, I will find you a link when I get home tonight

2) When should the live rock go in? should it be immediatly or should I wait for any toxic chemical levels to drop...I guess immediatly but some advice would be great

Get your Ro Water Heated & Salted (In the Tank that is) then add you Live Rock the sand, Take & record Test Results, you SHOULD see a rise in AMMONIA & NITRITE then they should zero, at this stage I would do a full battery of Tests ie pH, Ammonia, NitrAte, NitrIte, Phosphate, Temp, Sg, , if these are all stable & within acceptable parameter the you are ready to start adding your Livestock (Clean up crew 1st)

3) I was planning of using a Fluval 405 or FX5 as a Biological filter, is this advisable or should I look at other makes / models etc

Liverock would be you Biological Filter, you can use an external to increase you circulation & to house phosphate removers etc.

4) With regards to skimmers after reading these forums I get the feeling that whenever I see a Red Sea Prism Skimmer I should smash it to a million pieces with a hammer. Is this true? are they that bad or can you recommend a better one for my setup

I’ll give you a hammer if you want to smash a Prism, I would recommend Either Deltec or an Aquamedic Skimmer both do a skimmer for your size tank, I will add the Web Sites when I get home

5) I would like to use a sump but frankly I'm quite scared of them. It appears I have to either drill a hole in the back of the tank ( this is scary ####) as an overflow down to the sump and then have a pump bring it back up. Or I have a pump from the main tank pumping to the sump and then another one back up again, this method also scares me because surely if one of the pumps fail I would either have a flooded house by the time I get home or a pump working away in a dry sump because the inlet pump has failed??

This is the reason I aint allowed a Sump, My GF thinks I am useless at plumbing (tbh she is right)

What are you going to use for circulation ?

Are you going Reef or FOWLR

 

[newtomarine]

What marine life are the clean up crew? All the fish I want are invertibrate friendly

Wouldn't I still need a biological filter to start with as there is no way at this stage I could afford 50 KG of rock

I was going to buy a couple of powerheads, I don't know which ones at this stage but 2 powerful ones and my external should hopefully be enough circulation (should they all point in different directions or the same direction

I wanted to start with Fish only with 5-10 kg or LR and then slowly build it into a reef tank, all the fish I want are coral friendly. With such low LR to start with do you think I'll run into Biological problems ?

I was also planning on using Coral sand as apparently I jave heard that this is a biological filter as well.

 

[Fatty]

Wouldn't I still need a biological filter to start with as there is no way at this stage I could afford 50 KG of rock

If you can't afford the live rock, I would put reef bones in, so atleast you will have some of the right sort of rock which will be live rock 6 months plus.

I would also limit yourself drastically on stock until the live rock is there.

I don't think you can replace live rock with bio filters unless they are something special, as you need several different types of bacteria, one of the most important ones I think are the ones in the centre of the rock which work with very little oxygen, i.e., these conditions are not found in normal bio filters.

With flow, I've heard of people going for a circular flow, and also just random, but I think it's the turn over which is more important, tunze streams are fantastic, still saving for mine!

 

[SkiFletch]

Ok well, it sounds like you're from the UK so I'll let Chac help you out on where to get LR and or Baserock/reefbones on the cheap, but suffice it to say, there are options that are much more affordable than buying from your LFS . I will say though that 5-10kg's of LR is probably too little to start stocking with anything more than a pair of clowns or similar. Your sand bed will house bacteria and other beneficial filtration organisms, but do NOT waste money on "Live Sand". Just a marketing gimmick. Live rock will "seed" a sand bed within less than a month, so dont pay twice as much for live sand .

Cleanup crew members usually refers to snails, crabs, brittle stars, and other beneficial organisms that clean up nuiscance algae, detritus, and uneaten food. In the freshwater world, nothing eats fish poop, but in the saltwater world we add organisms that do it for us . If I were starting up a tank of around your size I'd look at ultimately getting 10 Cerith snails, 10 Nassarius snails, 10 Trochus snails, and maybe 4-5 Scarlet hermit crabs. I stay awa from astrea snails cause they fall over, cant right themselves, and die. I also stay away from turbo snails cause they can bulldoze rockwork and generally are not tolerant of high summer temps. Just my oppinion though. As your tank gets older you might want to consider adding a brittle star too

 

[Chac]

Snails, Crabs, Conc's, Urchins, Stars etc. Live Aquaria Inverts

Wouldn't I still need a biological filter to start with as there is no way at this stage I could afford 50 KG of rock

Personally I would add as much Live Rock as Possible as well as Reef Bones which are very porus & will populate from your Live Rock a lot quicker & will offer better filtration than Ocean Rock

I was going to buy a couple of powerheads

Have a look at Seio Powerheads these are exclellant for Circulation & are very powerfull for the price.

should they all point in different directions or the same direction

The idea is to provide enought flow/circulation to sustain the bacteria on your LR, ywhat you dont want is dead spots so 2/3 powerheads pointed in different direction & at differnet levels should help this

Live Rock Suppliers - STM & UDA

Remember you will also need Test Kits & a Refractomer

Try Fleabay for equipemnt as you can save a fortune there

 

[N1z]

50-60 kilos... i thought the rule was a lb a gallon.. so i mean 25kilos is more then enough as ive got a 240 tank but im gunna try get some more in just for looks lol

 

[Chac]

ahh you spotted the deliberate mistake there

Sorry bout that was thinking about a 200g system for some reason

25 - 35 kg's would be enought for your tank

I'll get my coat

 

[newtomarine]

50-60 kilos... i thought the rule was a lb a gallon.. so i mean 25kilos is more then enough as ive got a 240 tank but im gunna try get some more in just for looks lol

Many thanks for all your replies I think I know what direction im eading now; N1Z I would love to see more pictures of your tank, can you post some on this thread or email me some up to you.

 

[SkiFletch]

Oh, and make sure you check out the members tank sticky cause theres lots of pics there. And N1z, you should post your tank up there. For that matter so should a lot of others around here

 

[newtomarine]

Do you think I need a UV Sterilizer, I see they are good at eliminating nuisance Algea, bacteria, disease etc?

 

[SkiFletch]

Mixed emotions really it depends on what you want to accomplish. I use one on my tank cause longterm I want to eliminate especially ich but also leave my tank at a lower risk of bacterial infection. The downside is that a Sterilizer will reduce podlife in the tank and truly eliminate any chance of pods returning from a sump to the display. Depends on how much pods are important to your tank though... Not really important to my setup though. I would reccomend one for tanks 50g and up unless you're dead set on having a mandarin

 

[newtomarine]

Mixed emotions really it depends on what you want to accomplish. I use one on my tank cause longterm I want to eliminate especially ich but also leave my tank at a lower risk of bacterial infection. The downside is that a Sterilizer will reduce podlife in the tank and truly eliminate any chance of pods returning from a sump to the display. Depends on how much pods are important to your tank though... Not really important to my setup though. I would reccomend one for tanks 50g and up unless you're dead set on having a mandarin

Thanks for your advice, I may saound stupid now but what are pods and mandarins?

Sorry for going back in time but I have a question about powerheads. I am going to have a 210 ltr tank with just live rock and fish for about 6 months. At this stage do I need power heads or is that just for coral?

If so will 2 be enough, I'm looking at Seio which produce 2400L/H so a combined 5000 L/H for both of them. Is this enough or too much??

 

[SkiFletch]

Pods are short for copepods which are salt grain size critters which are food for a lot of different types of fish. They're rock cleaners and benign organisms, but in some cases a necessary food source. MOST mandarin fish eat ONLY pod life and will not eat prepared foods. SOME individual mandarins will eat prepared but most do not. This is a mandarin:

They swim kind of like hummingbirds fly. Really cool little fish but difficult to keep.

5000 L/hr is a good turnover on a 210L tank as it provides about 23x turnover per hour. Perfect for what will ultimately be a reef. You can get away with a 10x turnover with fish only but if you're going for a reef might as well install the 2 pumps from the start

 

[Chac]

Thanks for your advice, I may saound stupid now but what are pods and mandarins?

My Manderin - RIP - Lost in recent tank crash

At this stage do I need power heads or is that just for coral?

You will need the Seio's in at the same time you add your LR

If so will 2 be enough, I'm looking at Seio which produce 2400L/H so a combined 5000 L/H for both of them. Is this enough or too much??

2 Seios rated at 2400lph will be great