Gouramis

[Kittycat001]

Help!!

I don't know what is going wrong with my gouramis! I have a 55 gallon tank with:

1 Chinese algae eater
2 Bronze cory cats
1 Pleco
1 "mystery fish".. quite a few here thought it looked like a young red-finned cigar shark, but the guy who gave him to me wasn't sure.

I also had 1 opaline gourami and 1 gold gourami... They both died after about a week or so. I went and got two more of the same kind. These two made it about two weeks. They didn't seem sick or stressed, just died.. one one day, the other the next day.

I have a Biowheel 330 filter, and the temp is around 76-78 degrees. All the other fish are fine. I've had the cats, pleco, and algae eater for a month or so, and the other fish for a few years or more. I've never seen the bigger fish attack the gouramis or even chase them. He's really mellow and just minds his (or her) own business, even though it's about 7" long or so.

Are gouramis particular about anything? I've always thought they were pretty hardy fish. Any suggestions about what could be wrong? Or maybe suggestions on some other type of fish to try?

 

[FrankSlapperinni]

Sometimes a LFS's supplier can have a "Tainted" source of fish, especially with such popular fish with gouramis. they are usually kept in less than ideal habitats and can come into the store diseased.
did you notice any marks on the fish, or any signs of sickness, such as discolored gills or cloudy eyes?

 

[FanOFish]

Have you checked your tank for ammonia and nitrite levels? If all your water readings are good and there is nothing killing them the as Frank said you may have bought sick fish to begin with....

I would check for ammonia and nitrites and do a few water changes.

 

[PereguineFalcon]

Rule of thumb, let the fish stay in the LFS for at least 5 days before you buy them. Go in one day, observe the fish you want, and check back on it several times a day. If you are impatient or 'scared' it is gonna be gone...ask them how long they have had it. I've had my opaline gourami for almost 2 years now, and he seems to be doing great. I've had the pH from 6.7 to 7.4 and he is still doing great! Maybe mine is just resiliant or sumptin. I used to have 2, BUT one chased the other one and jumped the tank...very sad. Anywho, hope you get it figured out. Do a 50% water change and then run all your test to check your water quality.

 

[Kittycat001]

Thanks. I haven't checked the water yet. I just figured it was OK since only the gouramis were dying. I got the cory cats and plecos from the same place, (Petco) and they're still fine. Whats the best type of test kit to get, and if the nitrates and/or ammonia is high, what should I do? Will there be instructions with the test kits? Sorry, but I've never used one before. Guess I'm a bad fishkeeper. Well, only for gouramis, and now that I think about it, I couldn't keep any angelfish alive for more than a few months either last time I tried the fish thing.... but others did fine. I want to get it right this time as I really like fish!

 

[crazie.eddie]

I think they are dying becuase your tank cannot support the bioload. I'm sure if you add 2 other larger fish, other than a gourami, they would die as well. Also, your filter is way too small for your tank. For tanks up to 55 gallons or more, you should look into getting a canister filter. Hang on Back filters do not support enough media for larger tanks. Also, how often do you do your gravel cleaning/water changes? At what percent do you do the water changes? I'm sure if you get a larger filter and let it run for a few weeks and then add the gouramis, they will do well.

 

[Kittycat001]

Also, your filter is way too small for your tank. For tanks up to 55 gallons or more, you should look into getting a canister filter. Hang on Back filters do not support enough media for larger tanks. Also, how often do you do your gravel cleaning/water changes? At what percent do you do the water changes?

I heard the biowheel filters were good. This one is supposed to handle up to a 75 gallon tank. I clean my gravel probably about once every other month or so with one of those suction type gravel vacs, and maybe about a 25+ % water change. Basically just when the tank starts to look a little dirty. Should I do it more or less?

 

[pendragon]

You need to do regular water changes to keep your nitrate level within reasonable constraints (if your tank is already cycled). Your nitrate level (and how quickly it rises) will dictate how often you must do them. If you don't have a nitrate test kit, you really need one - in fact there are several test kits you really shouldn't be without. If you have made the commitment to keep fish, a comprehensive water test kit is a long-term investment you need to make. Unfortunately, some of the comprehensive kits don't include a test for nitrate (heaven only knows why not), so you may have to pick that up one separately anyhow.

At any rate, a 25% water change every other month is almost certainly not sufficient. Most folks with low-maintenance setups do a water change once, a month, and most do them weekly, bi-weekly, or even more often to make them happy. And always remember, several small water changes spaced out over an interval of time are always better for your fish than larger ones done only once in a while (a 10% change done each week is better than a 40% change done once every four weeks).

Hope that helps,

pendragon!

 

[Kittycat001]

OK. Now another question regarding water changes. When I have done them before, I have drained some water (25% or so), then re-filled it, then added de-chlorinator right away and haven't had any problems.. yet. Should I be doing it differently maybe? When I add water to the tank - like when it "evaporates", will the de-chlorinator already in the tank take the chlorine out of the new water that is added, or am I OK just adding more dechlorinator right away? I don't remove the fish from the tank because they "freak-out" with the net and swim into the glass and jump and I'm afraid they'll hurt themselves. I don't really have any bucket or container to hold that much water that I can dechlorinate before adding to the tank? What's the best way to add water, or do partial water changes?
Sorry for all the questions, but I'd love to be able to get something to live a long time besides plecos, algae eaters, and cories. I seem to do fine with them for some reason.

 

[pendragon]

OK. Now another question regarding water changes. When I have done them before, I have drained some water (25% or so), then re-filled it, then added de-chlorinator right away and haven't had any problems.. yet. Should I be doing it differently maybe?

Weeeellll.... let me answer your question with a question. If you were in a sealed room with no ventilation, and you were completely dependant on someone pumping fresh air in for you every so often, had you rather they pump in the poisonous gas too and then take it out? Or had you rather they take it out first, and pump the clean air in?

You really should be dechlorinating it first. Chlorine destroys fish's gill tissues on contact, as I understand it. Even a little bit of chlorine "burns" them, and even though one exposure in itself isn't killing them (in your case), it probably has a cumulative effect.

The dechlorinator "already in the tank" won't dechlorinate new water, and here's why: it's not still in the tank. I know this from experience. Once upon a time in the not-so-distant past, I misread the directions on a bottle of dechlorinator and put in twice the needed dosage. It was a new tank and I hadn't put the first fish in yet to start cycling, but I was planning to add them the next day. I called the company who made the de-chlorinator and asked whether the water would be fish-safe or whether I had to empty the tank and start with fresh water; they told me not to worry, that de-chlorinator dissipates within 24 hours and is no longer in the tank (they also said that even a quadruple dose was still safe for fish, though I wouldn't want to try it ). It would make sense that an additive like that would chemically dissociate over a period of time anyway, it certainly wouldn't stay in for two months. So, each time you water change, you must dechlorinate the new water.

As for how to do water changes, there are few ways of donig them that aren't potentially messy. You just have to work out a system that works for you. Some people swear by a tool you can buy called a Python that makes water changes a snap; I've never used one, and I don't know how you'd dechlorinate the water before it gets into the tank. Look in the 'Hardware' forum on this board; I think there's some talk about Pythons there. Many people (including me) use the old-fashioned bucket method. Using a gravel vacuum or siphon, you drain water out of your aquarium into a bucket (typically 3- or 5-gallons, bought from your nearest home improvement or hardware store), and then dump the bucket in a sink, bathtub, backyard, etc. Repeat until you've taken out however many gallons you'd like to change. Then fill the bucket back up with tap water (as neutral-temp as you can get from your faucet, NOT hot or cold), add the proper amount of dechlorinator, give it a stir and let it sit for a few minutes. Dump it back in tank. Repeat that procedure until you've replaced the same number of bucketloads you removed. Yes, this can get wet, messy, and sloppy, but once you get the hang of it it isn't too bad. You just have to figure a way of doing it that works best for you.

One other note: No matter how you do water changes, you really should have a "fish bucket" onhand - you're certain to need one eventually. Get yourself at least one good, sturdy bucket, label it FISH ONLY! NO CHEMICALS!, and put it someplace safe. Never, ever put any chemicals in it - even soap! Only tap water, tank water, and dechlorinator, and that's it. If you do water changes with a bucket, use it. If not, you'll have it in an emergency (tank cracks, chemical spill in the tank, etc.). It's not a good place to leave fish any longer than you have to, but it is a temporary refuge for them if disaster strikes.

Hope that helps.

pendragon!

 

[pendragon]

One other comment about the bucket method. It is a pain to have to drain and refill several buckets' worth of water, but this is not a completely bad thing - use it as "encouragement" to do smaller water changes more often. Remember: small, frequent changes are better for the fish than large ones only done every once in a while.

Instead of changing five buckets' worth of water once a month, change one buckets' worth each weekend. You'll save yourself a whole lotta trouble in the long run, IMHO, to remember to do the small ones often than waiting and doing the big ones less often. I use a 3 Gallon bucket for water changes (easier to handle than a 5 Gallon one); in my 45 Gallon tank, I tend to do a 3-Gallon water change every four or five days. It's far less hassle than doing one 15 Gallon change each month (five changes with a 3 Gallon bucket).

pendragon!

 

[Kittycat001]

One other comment about the bucket method. It is a pain to have to drain and refill several buckets' worth of water, but this is not a completely bad thing - use it as "encouragement" to do smaller water changes more often. Remember: small, frequent changes are better for the fish than large ones only done every once in a while.

Instead of changing five buckets' worth of water once a month, change one buckets' worth each weekend. You'll save yourself a whole lotta trouble in the long run, IMHO, to remember to do the small ones often than waiting and doing the big ones less often. I use a 3 Gallon bucket for water changes (easier to handle than a 5 Gallon one); in my 45 Gallon tank, I tend to do a 3-Gallon water change every four or five days. It's far less hassle than doing one 15 Gallon change each month (five changes with a 3 Gallon bucket).

pendragon!

Thanks! I didn't know it was ok to change water that often. You're right. It wouldn't be so bad just a couple buckets at a time once a week or so. Guess I'll be going to Home Depot for a bucket! I already have a large cooler (doesn't actually get cold though) that I only use to put the fish in when I move them or need to take them out of the tank for some reason, but that's pretty awkward to pick up and dump in the tank. Thanks again!