good fish for stupidly hard water

[Kendramc]

my water is off the charts on every hardness test i've been able to find. pH is about 7.5. i currently have swordtails and bristlenose plecos in my 30 gallon tank. i'm struggling with the swordtails. they keep dying (working on figuring out why). i'm to the point of wondering if i should just give up on the swordtails and try something else, but i know most fish prefer softer water. other than livebearers, what fish could i look into?

i am currently thinking about getting some mollies or guppies to see if they work any better, but would love some variety again.

thanks.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

The other go-tos for hard water are rift valley cichlids and rainbowfish. But if your water is hard enough to kill off swordtails, it might not work for anybody.

A few bits of information that would allow us to help you better:
1. Exactly how hard is your water? I've had well water that was too hard for anything to live in, something like 65 degrees hardness if I remember right. If that's the case with you, you might have to figure out another water source.
2. What's happening with your swords? If you can give us more info maybe we can help you figure out what's going on.

I would advise against getting new fish until we figure out what's happening.

 

[GaryE]

Yeah. Above.

Swords come from very hard water, but they also come from pet stores and they may be dying for reasons that have nothing to do with your water.

With a bit more info, we can offer options.

Btw - only some rainbows like hard water. Many come from softer water conditions.

 

[Kendramc]

My swordtails, about one a month, get skinny and sort of curved, then lethargic, then die over about a week from when i first notice the symptoms start. Poop seems to stay normal. They have all come from the same store, but over several months now, and different varieties suggesting different sources/lineages making genetic issues unlikely. There does not seem to be any correlation with new fish or water changes or anything else. All other water conditions are good.

How would I find out just how hard my water is? All of the tests I've done just come out maxed out. My bristlenose plecos have had no problems and I've had them for quite awhile.

 

[threecharacters]

What testing kits do you have? Can you tell us what the maxed out value was at least? You want the liquid tests not the test strips. What are your actual water parameters (like the numerical value)? If the bristlenose is OK, water hardness is not the problem. Skinny would suggest a parasite. What do you mean by curved?

 

[Kendramc]

What testing kits do you have? Can you tell us what the maxed out value was at least? You want the liquid tests not the test strips. What are your actual water parameters (like the numerical value)? If the bristlenose is OK, water hardness is not the problem. Skinny would suggest a parasite. What do you mean by curved?

right now i have the API 5-in-1 test strips, which max out at 240 KH and 180 GH. i know i've used a liquid test in the past, pretty sure it was API but i don't remember what the range was on it, or if it was KH or GH.

i'll take a sample into my local store sometime this week and have them test it and will report back.

the other measurements on the strip are nitrate (0), nitrite (0), and pH (7.5). i know it is odd to have nitrates at 0, so i will ask about that one specifically when i take in a sample too, but i do regular 50%ish weekly water changes and i do have a bunch of java ferns, so it seems unlikely that the nitrates would actually be high enough to be a problem.

as for the curved, normally swordtails are more of less equally arched on top and bottom, but when my fish start looking skinny, the underside gets more or less straight and the back seems more arched. it could just be an illusion with the belly being flatter, but i've been unable to get a decent photo to show what i mean.

the fish in question died this morning. my remaining three all look healthy at this point, and if pattern hold will continue to do so for at least a few weeks.

 

[Wills]

A curved spine can be a sign of Mycobacteria aka fish TB which is really serious. Just so we can rule it out google what I've mentioned.

Wills

 

[Kendramc]

A curved spine can be a sign of Mycobacteria aka fish TB which is really serious. Just so we can rule it out google what I've mentioned.

Wills

ok, based on what i've found on google, TB seems unlikely but not impossible. (notes are not in any order other than how they came to my mind)

1) my plecos, who have been around longer than any of my swordtails have been unaffected. it seems unlikely that it wouldn't have gotten either of them after this long.
2) TB is highly contagious. it seems unlikely that only 1 fish per month or so would get sick. especially since there is no consistency between fish i've had for a while vs newer additions.
3) raising pH is one of the ways to treat an infected tank, and my water already has a pH of 7.5.
4) the only symptom my fish get is the skinniness. no lesions or scale loss. skinniness can be associated with any number of things.

i don't have the resources needed for the biopsies to check for sure, so i can't truly rule it out.

 

[Colin_T]

1) Bottom dwelling fishes tend to tolerate Fish TB (Mycobacteria species) better than upper level fishes. The bottom dwelling fishes can get TB but they don't seem to develop the same symptoms or die as quickly as upper level fish. Presumably this is because they live on or near the bottom and are more likely to pick it up, so they have had more time to adapt and evolve with it.


2) The Mycobacteria grows slowly and will kill one fish here and one fish there. It's not like most diseases where you lose a bunch of fish over a couple of days and that's it. The bacteria grow inside the fish and over a course of months or years (depending on the size of the fish) they slowly destroy one or more of the fish's internal organs. When an organ is severely damaged, the fish suffers from internal organ failure and dies within 24-48 hours.

Common symptoms of Mycobacteria infection include sudden bloating (getting fat overnight), breathing heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, stop eating, do a stringy white poop, die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms.


3) The pH has absolutely nothing to do with Fish TB and if people online are saying it does, they don't know anything about the disease. It can live in fresh, brackish and salt water fishes and the pH of the water can be anywhere from 4.0 to 9.0. Because the bacteria grows inside the fish, it is unaffected by pH due to the fish regulating the pH of their body.


4) Fish TB doesn't normally cause fish to lose weight. If the fish are losing weight over a period of months, they probably have intestinal worms, which are extremely common in fish like swordtails, platies, mollies and guppies that come from Asia. If the fish lose weight rapidly (over a couple of weeks), it's usually an internal protozoan infection. I would start by treating them for thread worms first, then tapeworm.

See the following link for treating internal protozoan infections and intestinal worms in fish.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Kendramc]

Common symptoms of Mycobacteria infection include sudden bloating (getting fat overnight), breathing heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, stop eating, do a stringy white poop, die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms.

this part doesn't fit at all, no bloating, no heavy breathing, no stringy poop, survive about a week after first symptoms.

Fish TB doesn't normally cause fish to lose weight. If the fish are losing weight over a period of months, they probably have intestinal worms, which are extremely common in fish like swordtails, platies, mollies and guppies that come from Asia. If the fish lose weight rapidly (over a couple of weeks), it's usually an internal protozoan infection. I would start by treating them for thread worms first, then tapeworm.

there is no weird poop. does that rule out worms or protozoans?

 

[StevenF]

right now i have the API 5-in-1 test strips, which max out at 240 KH and 180 GH.

Your test strips read inpartpermillion. 180ppm GH is 10 degrees harness. Carbonate 240ppmKH is 13.4 degrees. These numbers are not normal. KH is usually less the GH. In your case your KH is higher. Are you adding any thing like a kh or GH booster or backing soda to your water? Any fertilizers? Do have a home water softener? How often do you chang seethe water and how much water.

 

[StevenF]

Youprofile indicates you liven michigan. My understanding is that most of Michigans water comes from rivers or the great lakes. These are not hard water sources. Are you using well water?

 

[Essjay]

Your test strips read inpartpermillion. 180ppm GH is 10 degrees harness. Carbonate 240ppmKH is 13.4 degrees. These numbers are not normal. KH is usually less the GH. In your case your KH is higher. Are you adding any thing like a kh or GH booster or backing soda to your water? Any fertilizers? Do have a home water softener? How often do you chang seethe water and how much water.

I understood the meaning to be that the strips only measure as high as 180 ppm GH and 240 ppm KH and as they are both at the maximum level on the strip, they are probably both at unmeasurable values above 180/240.

 

[Kendramc]

Your test strips read inpartpermillion. 180ppm GH is 10 degrees harness. Carbonate 240ppmKH is 13.4 degrees. These numbers are not normal. KH is usually less the GH. In your case your KH is higher. Are you adding any thing like a kh or GH booster or backing soda to your water? Any fertilizers? Do have a home water softener? How often do you chang seethe water and how much water.

Keep in mind these are the maximum numbers on the test strips. I have no idea what the actual measurements are, those are the lowest they can be for me water. I'm going to the store today to have them see if they can get better numbers.

 

[Kendramc]

Youprofile indicates you liven michigan. My understanding is that most of Michigans water comes from rivers or the great lakes. These are not hard water sources. Are you using well water?

I'm on city water, but it is all ground (well) water. Our main river here is so polluted they give limits on how much fish out of it one should eat, and it is only recently that you're allowed to fish it at all