Gonapodium To Fancy To Mate!?

[deb53cl]

Hi Everyone,

Maybe a bit of a strange one but I have had the male Sword for nearly a year now. He is in a 4ft community tank where others breed prolifically. He was initially with a pineapple female sword who dropped a batch of fry soon after getting her. He goes through all the typical Swordtail male actions but she has never become pregnant since.

I got another very large female a few months back and she soon had a batch of fry but now still no signs of a pregnancy.

He has a large hi fin and his tail is very englongated (lyre-tail) I think its called well it is in guppies not sure about swords!!! But his gonapodium is also very long and fancy reaching back to his tail. O yes lucky boy!! and he is very beautiful but do you think this could be the problem with the females not becoming pregnant?

As I said he is as amorous as can be and all the other fish are breeding well so do not think its the tank.

I have tried to get as good as poosible some pics but very hard!!!

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks everyone

 

[helterskelter]

Arrrrr yes lyre tails can not breed with females unless they have a normal gonopodium.

This is when breeding lyretail females you have to breed them with a male fish with a normal gononpodium but carrying half the lyretail gene.

 

[mixmaster jay]

i know swordtails,platy's are sexually diamorphic and can change sex (the females that is) im not sure about mollies they maybe too i dont think this will help in this instance but hey a bit of useless or usefull info for you lol

 

[OldMan47]

HelterSkelter is entirely correct. We have finally bred fish with long enough appendages that they are unable to breed and carry on the gene. The way it is done commercially is to breed a normal finned phenotype, carrying the long fin gene, with a long finned female. The end result is enough long finned males to sell to the public while continuing to produce males that carry the gene but have a normal fins.
As far as Mixmaster's comment, I have seen many platies, swords and mollies that looked like females when they are young. In fact all of them are born looking female. I have had a fair number of swordtails especially that still looked like females at close to a year of age but ended up proving to be males. It is my opinion, although I cannot prove it, that these are late maturing males, not females that magically change their genetic structure to change sex. The gender of a Xiphophorus is determined through sex determining genes, not by environmental factors as with some other fish's gender determination.

 

[deb53cl]

Thanks to everyone who answered...Very interesting answers

Suppose I should have realised this earlier on. One of the reasons I bought him and kept him as the only male was to breed him with the two females because I thought the off-spring may inherit some of his beautiful long fins!!!!!!

Such a shame that we are breeding to this extent.

O well back to LFS to look for another male.

He can just carry on practicing!!

 

[OldMan47]

If you want to breed the extreme long fin variety, get a normal male the right color and an extreme long fin female. Even the females look more like a traditional male because their fins are also very long. That means the anal fin can be misleading enough that you might mistake a female as a male.

 

[helterskelter]

if you cross a lyretail with a normal male you will not get lyretail fry, but they will all carry they lyretail gene.

So if then breed the fry you will get on average 50% lyretail and 50% normal (but carrying the gene).

If you then cross a lyretail female with a normal male but who carries the lyretail gene you will then get on average 75% lyretail offspring.

 

[deb53cl]

If you want to breed the extreme long fin variety, get a normal male the right color and an extreme long fin female. Even the females look more like a traditional male because their fins are also very long. That means the anal fin can be misleading enough that you might mistake a female as a male.

I have always thought ( presumed) "he" was a male!! and looking at him now I still think he is but being quite a novice maybe I'm wrong!. As I said "he" has always been in the tank with a pineapple female and more recently with a large orange female. Maybe I have 3 females haha.

I know the pics are not brilliant quality but what sex do you think "he" is?

 

[LauraFrog]

I'm pretty certain he's a male... lyres can't mate though. The only way to produce 100% lyretail is by artificial insemination, which is a pain in the butt and sometimes results in dead fish - it's done under general anaesthetic and that always has its risks.
It's a shame because the lyretail strain is absolutely beautiful. Personally I find this a lot less objectionable than the breeding of fancy guppies with enormous tails - the swordtails can't mate, well the guppies can't swim.

Interestingly, the lyretail gene in the swordtail produces extension of the gonopodium (as you're seeing) but in the molly it does not - the extension appears on the dorsal fin, caudal fin, ventral fins and occasionally the anal fin in the female. The male lyretail molly is able to mate normally.

 

[deb53cl]

I'm pretty certain he's a male... lyres can't mate though. The only way to produce 100% lyretail is by artificial insemination, which is a pain in the butt and sometimes results in dead fish - it's done under general anaesthetic and that always has its risks.
It's a shame because the lyretail strain is absolutely beautiful. Personally I find this a lot less objectionable than the breeding of fancy guppies with enormous tails - the swordtails can't mate, well the guppies can't swim.

Interestingly, the lyretail gene in the swordtail produces extension of the gonopodium (as you're seeing) but in the molly it does not - the extension appears on the dorsal fin, caudal fin, ventral fins and occasionally the anal fin in the female. The male lyretail molly is able to mate normally.

Yes Laura 100% agree with you. He is beautiful and thats why I bought him thinking in my naivity that I would get some smashing babies. When the pineapple wasnt producing I spent a long time looking round for a large healthy well coloured female and bought her and still I didn't click on that it was him haha.

It is a shame like you say that these fish can't behave naturally.

Looks like i'm off today to find a young macho stud for the ladies!!