Goldfish in pond all have ich, how to treat?

[enfiskejer]

I have 5 goldfish in an outdoor pond, I recently bought 3. They must've brought back ich, they've had it for at least a week maybe more I wish I had spotted it before.
I know it needs to be treated, the pond is probably 150-200 litres I think.
Whats the best way to do it?
I would like to treat with salt but I haven't done it before, the fish range from 6 months old to 8 or 9 years. I have a very mature water lily and a mega grass plant in there, so I'd like to avoid using chemicals that will kill them.
Thanks for the help

 

[Colin_T]

Pictures of the sick fish so we can confirm it is white spot?

Male goldfish get small white dots on their gill covers and along the edge of their pectoral (side) fins when in breeding condition. These can look like white spot but don't spread over the body. If the fish have small white spots all over the body and fins, then it probably is white spot. But if the dots are only on the gill covers and pectoral fins, the fish are males in breeding condition.

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Salt doesn't treat white spot. You need something with Malachite Green or copper in. If you use either medication, you need a filter and aeration on the pond otherwise you should check the instructions and contact the company and find out what dose you use in an unfiltered pond. It will probably be about half dose for a pond/ tank with no filter.

You will need to treat the pond for several weeks due to the cooler water slowing the spread of the white spot parasites. Normally you treat for 1 week after all the dots have gone. If the water is really cold (below 10C) you might need to treat for 2 weeks after all the spots have gone.

Be careful using Malachite green because it is a known carcinogen (causes cancer). Do not get the stuff on your skin and wash hands and arms with soapy water after working in the pond or handling medications.

Copper kills snails and shrimp. If you have any snails or shrimp in the pond, you will need to remove these if you use copper.

Do not use copper and malachite green together. Just use one of those chemicals, either a copper based remedy, or a malachite green based remedy.

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Before you treat the pond you need to work out how much water is in it. You can use the formula below to work out a square or rectangular pond's volume. If it's a round pond there is a different formula and odd size ponds are a pain to work out.

To work out the volume of water in a square or rectangular pond:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

For a round pond use Pi R2 x depth, divide by 1000.
3.14 x radius x radius x depth (in cm)
divide by 1000
= volume in litres

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the pond, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the bottom of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating with chemicals or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working. You do not need to remove the carbon if you use salt.

 

[itiwhetu]

Goldfish very rarely get Ich, Photos please

 

[enfiskejer]

Pictures of the sick fish so we can confirm it is white spot?

Male goldfish get small white dots on their gill covers and along the edge of their pectoral (side) fins when in breeding condition. These can look like white spot but don't spread over the body. If the fish have small white spots all over the body and fins, then it probably is white spot. But if the dots are only on the gill covers and pectoral fins, the fish are males in breeding condition.

-----------------
Salt doesn't treat white spot. You need something with Malachite Green or copper in. If you use either medication, you need a filter and aeration on the pond otherwise you should check the instructions and contact the company and find out what dose you use in an unfiltered pond. It will probably be about half dose for a pond/ tank with no filter.

You will need to treat the pond for several weeks due to the cooler water slowing the spread of the white spot parasites. Normally you treat for 1 week after all the dots have gone. If the water is really cold (below 10C) you might need to treat for 2 weeks after all the spots have gone.

Be careful using Malachite green because it is a known carcinogen (causes cancer). Do not get the stuff on your skin and wash hands and arms with soapy water after working in the pond or handling medications.

Copper kills snails and shrimp. If you have any snails or shrimp in the pond, you will need to remove these if you use copper.

Do not use copper and malachite green together. Just use one of those chemicals, either a copper based remedy, or a malachite green based remedy.

-----------------
Before you treat the pond you need to work out how much water is in it. You can use the formula below to work out a square or rectangular pond's volume. If it's a round pond there is a different formula and odd size ponds are a pain to work out.

To work out the volume of water in a square or rectangular pond:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

For a round pond use Pi R2 x depth, divide by 1000.
3.14 x radius x radius x depth (in cm)
divide by 1000
= volume in litres

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the pond, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the bottom of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating with chemicals or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working. You do not need to remove the carbon if you use salt.

Its on all of them so I'm almost sure its that (I hope I'm wrong though). They are all acting sick, not eating well and aren't active. I'm from Perth too so the water definitely above 10 degrees, more like 17-18 ish.
I will go to the pet store today and have a look, I have a community tank inside and I use the same 3 buckets for water changes will that infect the fish in my fish tank? Or shouldn't that matter.
I have a pump thing with a big sponge (not sure if that counts as a filter) and an air stone that is on for most of the day. I'll go out and try and get a picture but I'm not sure what else it could be.

 

[enfiskejer]

Goldfish very rarely get Ich, Photos please

I've been trying to get a picture but since I can only take them from the top its not showing up in the pictures. This isn't mine but it looks like this, just my fish have it a little less severe.
The goldfish were bought from a local goldfish and koi farm which makes it even more disappointing I guess.

 

[Colin_T]

I will go to the pet store today and have a look, I have a community tank inside and I use the same 3 buckets for water changes will that infect the fish in my fish tank? Or shouldn't that matter.
I have a pump thing with a big sponge (not sure if that counts as a filter) and an air stone that is on for most of the day. I'll go out and try and get a picture but I'm not sure what else it could be.

You want to get some new buckets because the parasites can spread to the other tank if you share buckets, nets, gravel cleaners, or anything else.

Get the pump on the pond running continuously and the airstone. Have them both on all the time.

The water pump with a sponge on the end is probably the filter. Keep it running. If you have to clean the sponge, squeeze it out in a bucket of pond water and re-use the sponge. Pour the bucket of dirty water on the lawn.

How big is the goldfish in the picture?
It is covered in spots

 

[enfiskejer]

You want to get some new buckets because the parasites can spread to the other tank if you share buckets, nets, gravel cleaners, or anything else.

Get the pump on the pond running continuously and the airstone. Have them both on all the time.

The water pump with a sponge on the end is probably the filter. Keep it running. If you have to clean the sponge, squeeze it out in a bucket of pond water and re-use the sponge. Pour the bucket of dirty water on the lawn.

How big is the goldfish in the picture?
It is covered in spots

I will do that, and that picture is not my fish (I found it on the internet) to show what they look like. Luckily my fish have it a little less severe.
Will the copper/malachite green hurt the plants in the pond?

 

[Colin_T]

As long as you don't overdose with the medication, the plants will be fine. They will take the medication better than the fish so don't overdose the pond or the fish will die.

 

[enfiskejer]

As long as you don't overdose with the medication, the plants will be fine. They will take the medication better than the fish so don't overdose the pond or the fish will die.

Thanks again for the help, I'll keep updating as time passes

 

[enfiskejer]

I added the treatment yesterday, I had to add 60mL to treat 400L. The pond is a figure of 8 shape so I had to estimate, the calculation I got was 522L but that was if it was a rectangle, I didn't want to over-dose. The bottle is only 125mL so 60mL seems like a lot.
When do I re-dose it?
How long does it take for the treatment to work?
How long after the spots fall off do I continue?
This is the bottle, https://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/products/blue-planet-white-spot-remedy

 

[Colin_T]

Most medications are made for smaller aquariums so you will need to get a big bottle of treatment for a pond, especially in cooler weather.

If the pond is a figure 8, you can work out the formula for each circular section (using Pi x R2 x depth, divide by 1000) and then add the two volumes together.

If you drop the water level in the pond a few inches, you will reduce the amount of water you need to treat so will use less medication. Don't drop the level too much, but you might be able to reduce it 4-6 inches and that will reduce the amount of medication you need to treat the pond.

You can have the pond water level around 12 inches deep for treatment.

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I spoke to the company and they say to repeat treatment every 3 days.

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The medication kills the white spot parasites within minutes but you can only kill the parasites when they are in a free swimming stage. The parasite has 3 stages and can only be killed in one of those stages.

1st stage is where you see white dots on the fish. This is the parasite inside a cyst type structure. It is glued to the fish and is feeding off the fish. You cannot harm the parasite at this stage.

2nd stage is where the parasite falls off the fish and sits on the bottom of the tank/ pond. It is still inside its cyst and is still safe from medication. While sitting on the bottom of the pond, the parasite is multiplying inside the cyst.

3rd stage is where the cyst on the bottom ruptures open and releases hundreds of new parasites. The baby parasites swim around the water looking for a new host. This is the only time you can kill them, while they are swimming around and before they attach to a fish.

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You need to keep treating for at least one week after all the spots have gone. Because of the cooler weather, you might need to keep treating for 2 weeks after all the white dots have gone because the parasite develops slower in cold/ cool water.

If it was the middle of summer and the water was 26C, then treating for 1 week after all the spots were gone would be sufficient. However, because we are in autumn and the water is cooler it will take longer for the parasites to get to the free swimming stage where they can be killed.

The following link has more information about white spot and treating it. Post #1 and #16 might interest you.

What is ICH?

This is a common question that is often asked, what is ich and how is it recognisable and what causes it? The real term is ICHTHYOPHTHIRIASIS. OR commonly known as white spot. It is an extremely comon parasite that affects aquarium fish. It is highly infectious and potentially lethal and...

www.fishforums.net

 

[enfiskejer]

Thats really helpful! I've just discovered ich in my tropical tank as well
Do I raise the temperature and see if it kills it?
I don't want to add medication because I want to add shrimp later.

 

[Colin_T]

To treat the white spot in the tropical tank, just raise the water temperature to 30C (86F) and keep it there for 2 weeks, or at least 1 week after all the white dots have gone. the heat will kill the parasites. Measure the water temperature with a thermometer in the water so you know it is 30C.

You can insulate the base (assuming you don't already have foam under the tank), back and sides of the tank with 1 inch thick polystyrene foam. And have a coverglass on top of the tank to help trap heat so the heater doesn't have to work as hard.

You can't use heat in the pond because the temperature difference (18-30C) will kill the fish. But for tropical fish that are already at 24-26C, it's not an issue going up to 30C.

Before you raise the temperature, do a 75-80% water change and gravel clean the substrate. This will remove a lot of the parasites from the tank and reduce the numbers that can infect the fish. Clean the filter too if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise the oxygen level in the water. Warm water reduces the oxygen carrying capacity of water, and the white spot affect the gills and make it harder for fish to breathe. So increasing aeration helps both of these problems.

 

[enfiskejer]

My 200W heater is on full blast in my 110L but it can't get the water up to 30 degrees, its stuck at 29. Is that hot enough to kill ich?

 

[Colin_T]

29C is not hot enough. It needs to be 30C.

Can you insulate the back sides and top of the tank?
Use sheets of 1-2 inch thick polystyrene foam, available from pet shops or places like Clark Rubber (they used to sell sheets of it). Tape the foam to the outside of the tank and cover the back and sides. If it still doesn't heat up enough, cover the front too.

Have a coverglass on top of the tank to help trap heat. Use 4, 5 or 6mm thick coverglass because it is less likely to chip compared to thinner glass (2 or 3mm).

If the tank still does warm up enough, you might need a second heater. But a 200 watt heater should be able to warm 110 litres up to 30C.

At night you can remove the light and put a sheet of foam on top of the tank to help it warm up too. But you will need to remove that in the morning before turning the tank light on. Wait 30 minutes after removing the foam from the top, before turning the light on so the tank doesn't go from complete dark to complete light instantly.