Golden Barb - Clear String Poo

[Lady Moogie]

Tank size: 120L (32x16x12")
pH: 7.6 (bogwood has brought it down from 7.8)
ammonia: 0-trace
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10-20
kH: unknown
gH: unknown
tank temp: 26°c

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
I've got a pair of golden barbs, one was smaller than the other when we got it and is still smaller of course - but the bigger one seems to be growing much more quickly. The small one feeds well on little pink barb pellets, algae wafers and a bit of flake when he gets to it in time. He also eats peas (1-2 times a week) & bloodworm (on Saturdays), and last night I introduced a bit of boiled (no salt) carrot which I think he had a go at. He's not spitting his food back out, and is perfectly active. The only problem is his poo, which I noticed a couple of days ago - and have spotted it again today. The poo starts with a little blob of normal thickness, but in a very pale brown or white - there's only 1-2mm of this thicker part until it turns into clear string, so thin I wouldn't know he was even pooing if it weren't for the blob on the end. I would guess at internal parasites or bacteria. I've not seen the problem with any of the other fish, just him. I've also noticed today that he seems to be swimming at a bit of an odd angle, he's sort of tilted by about 30 degrees - but not all the time.
Not sure what the best meds would be to use and in what order (presumably I will need to treat for both possibilities). I'll also need to find out the best way to remove meds from the tank between treatments, as we only have a UGF in place. We've got an extra filter but my other half still doesn't want us to set it up. Could I just put the carbon pads I bought for it into the tank to remove the meds when I'm done with them?
The other problem is that we have cherry shrimp and I know a lot of meds aren't good for them - but we have nowhere else to put them, we only have the one tank.

Am also a little concerned as I was reading another thread saying that blackened eyes on a fish can be a sign of TB. A few of our guppies have always had darker eyes and I'd never thought anything of it, just natural variation I assumed. Googling it, I see it can be quite common for guppies to have a dark iris or even other colours down to wild guppy genes or something. Aside from a bit of squabbling they don't behave as though anything is wrong.


Volume and Frequency of water changes:
20l change once or twice a week

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
Currently using melafix for guppy with tailrot

Tank inhabitants:
Little overstocked I'm afraid as per my topic in the newbie forum - but all keeping well.
10x male guppies
6x glowlight tetra
2x golden barb
1x flying fox
1x GN plec
3x cherry shrimp

all are still babies

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
2x glowlight tetra (was advised to increase shoal)
bogwood

Exposure to chemicals:
n/a

Digital photo (include if possible):
This is the best I could get - you can see the white blob at the end of the string.

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[WILDER]

Add another filter to help with your stocking.

if a fish was skinny and had a bent spine with the black eyes, maybe then we could say fish tb.

it could be bacterial to internal parasites. Mucas poo can mean bacteria infection, internal parasites, the fish isn't eating.
Fish will also swim on there sides with a bacterial infection, internal parasites.


Sign of internal parasites are.
Long stringy white poo, clear mucas poo, red poo.
Worms prutruding from the anus.
Enlarged anus, red inflamed anus.
Fish will look skinny or bloated.
Sunken in belly.
Bent spine.
Spitting food out.
Sometimes flicking and rubbing.
Fish will sometimes swim on it's side.

Lost any livebearers to bent spine, or looking skinny or bloated.

 

[Lady Moogie]

Thanks Wilder - it's so great knowing you're here for all of us (and our fishy friends)

Only lost 2 guppies a few weeks back, only one of those had darker eyes and neither of the fish were skinny or bloated. No spinal problems. So, I shan't worry about those guys.

As for the barb:

Long stringy white poo, clear mucas poo, red poo. - Clear mucas poo I guess would be the best description of it
Worms prutruding from the anus. - No sign of these, have been keeping an eye out
Enlarged anus, red inflamed anus. - No redness specific to his bottom, both barbs have some reddish shading (if you catch them in the right light) along their underside, maybe moreso towards their backends as you can sort of see in the photo.
Fish will look skinny or bloated. - Neither really, just small compared with his friend.
Sunken in belly. - No
Bent spine. - No
Spitting food out. - No, he's eating normally
Sometimes flicking and rubbing. - Very occasionally I catch him doing this, as do the guppies (LFS said this is normal for guppies?)
Fish will sometimes swim on it's side. - He's been more noticably angled today, but not all the time.


What meds would you recommend I treat with, given that I have cherry shrimp too and nowhere to move them to? I don't think Sterazin is safe for them

Thanks again!

 

[WILDER]

Can you buy a small issolation tank for the inverts. There some great deals on small plastic tanks.

I think I would worm your fish, it's best to anyway.
Don't bother with sterazin by waterlife it no good.

There this med by sera.

Make sure the redness on the fish dosn't look like red sores, red streaking, bleeding beneath the skin.
Check the fish eyes for white specs behind the lens of the eye.
Make sure the fish don't have any excess slime, and show signs of darting or erratic swimming, laboured breathing.

Once you wormed your fish it best to back up with a bacterial med.

Link to med.
http/www.thegreenmachineaquatics.com/mall/productpage.cfm/Aquatics/_nematol%20001/198936

 

[Lady Moogie]

Money's very tight at the moment, but we can probably get a plastic tank. The only problem then is getting a heater, filter and all the rest of it.

I'm not sure how to tell what the redness is - it definately doesn't look like external sores that's all I can say. How will I know if it's internal bleeding (and what's 'streaking?' - sorry!)
To check his eyes, I guess I need a magnifying glass. Will see if I notice any specs.
He doesn't seem to be laboured in his breathing, nor swimming erratically - except that sometimes the bigger barb will chase him (only briefly). He doesn't appear slimy. Then again, we have very very fine bubbles from our filter and they seem more inclined to stick to the barbs than the other fish. I figured this was just because their scales are different?

I guess I need to net him and take a closer look? Have never had to do that before!

Am a bit concerned about the required 80% water change after 2 days of that med - won't such a large amount upset the fish? I'd be a bit concerned about the GN plec as I've read they don't take well to big water changes. Plus we don't have enough buckets to dechlorinate that much water in advance. But I guess if we need to get more, we'll just have to.

Is it possible just to medicate the affected barb in a tub on his own, or does the whole tank need treating?



EDIT:
I've just had a good look at him with a magnifying glass and am pleased to say I see no white specs in his eyes.
The red areas don't appear to be bleedy, in fact looking on Google at pics of other golden barbs, I think this is just the normal colouration (eg http/2.bp.blogspot.com/_esePU1qV1Dk/S2-xBFUssZI/AAAAAAAAAHo/eiQvdbAnApo/s320/IMG_9624.jpg). Both our barbs have this colouration, but only the small one ('Little' as I call him) is doing the clear poo. Large's poos all appear normal.
I haven't fished him out to see if he's slimy, but he really doesn't look it.

So I guess worming is the answer. Are there any other meds you can recommend, or is the sera one the only one that's worth trying?

 

[WILDER]

You can buy small tanks with heaters and filter supplied with them.

I would do the water changes in two halfs. Do a 40% water change, then the next day do the other 40%.
Big water changes are ok if the tap ph is the same as tank ph.
You don't alter temp of the tank by more than 2 degree's either way.


Is the water change with the sera med.

There another med called wormer plus, but it depends on which parasite fish have.
With having livebearers I thought the sera med with be a better choice.

The whole tank needs treating i'm afraid.

 

[Lady Moogie]

Thanks Wilder - I'll see what we can find in the way of a cheap plastic tank with heater etc. Hopefully we can find the pennies for it!
The water change is for the sera med, but if you think it's ok to do it in two 40% changes that sounds less scary! I'll have to look into getting some activated carbon for the tank to remove the meds later (although I guess the water change will mostly see to that), as other half still doesn't want the other filter put in.

I'll look into the wormer plus med too.

In a way I'd be glad to treat the whole tank as I know it could help the other fish if they've got problems I'm not aware of.
The water change is my biggest concern, but two of 40% isn't so bad.

And I guess if we can't find an affordable setup to move the shrimp to, we'll just have to lose them (which I know may sound cruel, sorry) - there are only 3 in the tank anyway, and as awful as it sounds it is probably cheaper for us to replace them than to get the small tank (although the small tank would doubtless come in handy on other occasions). I've been keeping my eye on Ebay & the local paper for a few weeks now in case of a cheap small tank we can buy for a hospital

Thanks for all the advice, I'll let you know how it goes Will probably have to order the med online as I've not seen it at the LFS.

 

[WILDER]

See if the lfs will take the inverts for you.

Its best to over filter a tank if it's overstocked.


Let me know how you get on if you don't mind.
Good Luck.

 

[Lady Moogie]

We still haven't managed to get a seperate tank set up for the shrimp, but over the last few days I have noticed the barbs don't only do this clear string poo. They're also making more normal looking poo - well, not quite the same as the long dark strings the other fish make. The barbs seem to make little blobs of poo which resembles the food they've been eating (eg, pink coloured pellets make pink blob poos, algae wafers make little greenish blob poos etc). I had hoped this meant they'd just been poorly and had recovered by themselves, but today I've seen another clear stringy poo from the little barb.

Other half doesn't want the shrimp to die, so I'm wondering if it's worth trying Paragon for this? Or try a bacterial med first? (any suggestions for something shrimp safe which won't wipe out all our good bacteria?). Or some kind of medicated food?

I emailed Waterlife about Paragon (since their site isn't clear as to what parasites its for, nor whether it should be used with or instead of Sterazin) and they suggested Octozin, so I'll take a look at that too.

The other thing I'm not clear on is how to go about removing the meds, as I don't know how we can add a carbon filter to the undergravel filter? Just a lot of big water changes? And then do the anti internal bacteria med?

thanks again for all your help, you really are a star!

 

[WILDER]

Paragon a tonic med. Tonic meds are a complete waste of money in my opinion.
Octozin for hole in the head.

Under gravel filters are very outdated. I think I would buy an internal filter.
Once the filter matured remove the under gravel filter from the tank.
There not recommended for large fish either as they soon block up and stop working.


Inverts really need removing from tank no matter which med you use.

Try a bacterial med then.
But it's best to worm fish anyway.