Getting Really Confused

[mishmash]

Well, I've done it again! Read so many articles and seen so many conflicting comments that I am now TOTALLY confused and don't know where to start.

Here is what I want to achieve, and I will follow this (hopefully) brief description with a few questions. Maybe by getting specific feedback I will be able to work forward.....

What I have GOT

Aquarium: Interpet River Reef 50, 94litres/24gallons. dimensions 20"w x 18"h x 16"d (incl 4" for integrated rear filter chamber)
Plantable footprint:20" x 12"
Lighting: 2 x 36w T5 PC compacts .... It came with two tubes called "marine", which i cannot seem to find out what spectrum they cover though its quite white, poss 10,000k , one called "triplus" which i have established is around 8500k and emits a more reddish glow, and another called daylight blue which is a twin spectrum light giving 6500k daylight plus actinic for corals. (This has not been used and I may list it if anyone has a saltwater tank needing this bulb).
Heater: 200w
Filtration: built in at the rear, multichamber, order of flow will go as follows...a)sponge media b)bioballs c)ceramic noodles d)carbon/zeolite.
Circulation: twin 550lph pumps serving the upper and lower water column via multidirectional heads. Giving about 10x volume per hour flow rate.

Tap water parameters: 7.0pH, Nitrates 5ppm, gH 30ppm, kH <5ppm

What I Want To Achieve

I want this to be a reasonably heavily planted aquarium which will play host to Apistogrammas (a pair of), a group of Corydoras, maybe a few rainbow fish, and a shoal of tetras of some sort. I intend to have a piece of bogwood over to the right (already purchased) which will have java fern attached to it, and some Sumatran wood on the left, that will be quite tall. Other plants I would like include Amazon swords, cryptocorynes, echinodorus tenellus, Red Tiger lily, Twisted Vallis (open to suggestions). Planting will be a triangle on the left of the tank, completely across the back and the wood on the right will be positioned so that an opposing triangle of planting on the right can be placed in such a way that it appears there is a channel in the centre leading towards the rear. (I will try and get a diagram up).

Thats the general idea. I am hoping to do a planted tank style cycle, so intend to put a few fish in within a few days. As I have already bought a bottle of Waterlife bacteria, and a gel sachet of bacteria that you smear over the sponge media, I am going to put them in in any case. I cant see any harm (if you can please tell me).

So, my questions are;

1) What substrate to use ? Because of the corys I dont want gravel. I was initially going to go with just play sand but having second thoughts. It wont provide nutrients for the plants and now Im worrying that because it is light it may cause my Apisto's to look washed out ?? Thoughts? If your advice is to use a planting substrate, can i put sand on top ? (I could use a layer of darker aquarium sand). Alternatively how about just using aquarium sand and popping fert tabs into it ?

2) Do I need to be dosing with ferts ? CO2 ? Its a small tank and I would like to avoid expensive CO2 setups (I will no doubt go down the larger more advanced tank eventually). If so, which, how often etc ?

3) Do I need to worry about what type of lighting spectrum I am using ? Initial thoughts were to run with 1 of the lamps named "marine" which seems to be around a 10k spectrum, as well as the "triplus" which i believe to be around 8500k. They are both used in any case and therefore probably lower in emitted spectrum anyway.

4) Im assuming I need the pumps on full blast to get that 10x circulation going ? Am I likely to need any more circulation than that ? What direction should i angle the return nozzles ? (yes yes, away from a direct blast to the plants I assume, lol).

5) Im thinking of using the Waterlife Humaquat Blackwater Tonic to reduce the pH down a bit; I would like it to be around 6.3 to 6.5 for the fish I intend keeping. Will this work ? Or what other methods are suitable?

Here is a pic of the tank as it is now. I will add more as the project progesses.

Sorry for such a long post, but from reading other ones where "newbies" ask questions, there are often a whole load of "can you tell us this... can you tell us that... about your tank" type questions, so I thought I would try and cover as much as possible

 

[JenCliBee]

1) What substrate to use ? Because of the corys I dont want gravel. I was initially going to go with just play sand but having second thoughts. It wont provide nutrients for the plants and now Im worrying that because it is light it may cause my Apisto's to look washed out ?? Thoughts? If your advice is to use a planting substrate, can i put sand on top ? (I could use a layer of darker aquarium sand). Alternatively how about just using aquarium sand and popping fert tabs into it ?

Sand is fine to use but you will need to dose ferts to the water column under them light conditions either way. 3wpg is considered very high light. You could use a soil based substrate capped with black sand?. Either way with the lighting i wouldn't want to rely on substrate ferts alone. You will also need to add a co2 source, weather this be liquid or pressurised. all this is based on the high lighting your planning on using. I know RR have separate switches for the lights, how about just using one of the bulbs?. This will lower the plants demand for nutrients and be a much better option for somebody that is trying a fully planted tank for the first time.

Just remeber though, cory's dig and a capped substrate always has the potential to mix when the substrate is constantly being sieved through.

2) Do I need to be dosing with ferts ? CO2 ? Its a small tank and I would like to avoid expensive CO2 setups (I will no doubt go down the larger more advanced tank eventually). If so, which, how often etc ?

As above, if you plan on using the 72w of light the short answer is yes to both. Depending on what you chose (liquid or pressurised co2) the tank will need a constant source.

3) Do I need to worry about what type of lighting spectrum I am using ? Initial thoughts were to run with 1 of the lamps named "marine" which seems to be around a 10k spectrum, as well as the "triplus" which i believe to be around 8500k. They are both used in any case and therefore probably lower in emitted spectrum anyway.

Lighting is usually aesthetics so no, the range i aim for is 4500k-12,000k because it is so readily available and seems to cover most of the spectrum range but essentially it's what you actually prefer the look of.

4) Im assuming I need the pumps on full blast to get that 10x circulation going ? Am I likely to need any more circulation than that ? What direction should i angle the return nozzles ? (yes yes, away from a direct blast to the plants I assume, lol).

This will be a try an test answer, you may not need them on full, you may infact need more once the plants are much denser. Aslong as ferts and co2 are distributed nicely and the plants all sway then normally you can be assured this criteria is being met

5) Im thinking of using the Waterlife Humaquat Blackwater Tonic to reduce the pH down a bit; I would like it to be around 6.3 to 6.5 for the fish I intend keeping. Will this work ? Or what other methods are suitable?

To be fair if your tap water is 7 the fish you are planning should be fine with it, there isn't really any need to be be messing to adjust (this can often cause more hassle than it's worth or necessary). The only time i would encourage this is if your PH was sitting closer to the 7.8 upwards mark.


Hope that helps mate, i'm not sure ive covered everything your asking but it's a start

 

[mishmash]

Sand is fine to use but you will need to dose ferts to the water column under them light conditions either way. 3wpg is considered very high light. You could use a soil based substrate capped with black sand?. Either way with the lighting i wouldn't want to rely on substrate ferts alone. You will also need to add a co2 source, weather this be liquid or pressurised. all this is based on the high lighting your planning on using. I know RR have separate switches for the lights, how about just using one of the bulbs?. This will lower the plants demand for nutrients and be a much better option for somebody that is trying a fully planted tank for the first time.

Could I not control the photoperiod in order to restrict the plant growth ?
I know I have 3wpg but if I limit the time the lights are on, is that not the same as reducing the light but having them on for longer ?
If I do this, then would I need the CO2 still ?
I guess I could use one bulb but aesthetically the combination of the two is much nicer.
Another alternative would be to have lower wattage lights in there ?
Would the ballasts I have blow lower wattage lights or be OK do you think ?
If light spectrum is not really relevant as long as its within certain levels, why is there so much fuss made about replacing tubes regularly ? Is that
just from the aesthetic point too, or is it really only appropriate to marines ?

To be fair if your tap water is 7 the fish you are planning should be fine with it, there isn't really any need to be be messing to adjust (this can often cause more hassle than it's worth or necessary). The only time i would encourage this is if your PH was sitting closer to the 7.8 upwards mark.

I am hoping the Apistos will breed so I would like to have the water lower than neutral tbh.

Hope that helps mate, i'm not sure ive covered everything your asking but it's a start

Definitely, I appreciate your input.


Anyone else care to add ?

 

[JenCliBee]

Could I not control the photoperiod in order to restrict the plant growth ?

Simple answer is no, while the lights are on they grow at the rate the nutrients allow (higher light, faster growth rates...not enough nutrients...plants fail due to starvation). While that intense light is on, if the nutrients aren't sufficient... the plants suffers. Reducing the photoperiod just stops the amount of time the plants photosynthesise for.

I know I have 3wpg but if I limit the time the lights are on, is that not the same as reducing the light but having them on for longer ?
If I do this, then would I need the CO2 still ?

Again no, the light intensity is what encourages plants to grow, not the length of time it is on for. For instance if you had 1wpg over the tank for 15 hours this would encourage less growth than having 3wpg for 6 hours, simply because the uptake of nutrients due to lower light levels are significantly lower resulting in slower growth. The light intensity is what drives the need for food not the amount of time the light is on for.

I guess I could use one bulb but aesthetically the combination of the two is much nicer.

There is no dispute there, 2 lights would certainly be better for aesthetics but without co2 and daily ferts it really isn't feasible.

Another alternative would be to have lower wattage lights in there ?

No the ballasts are designed for the wattage lights supplied, anything smaller would be over powered leading to either shortened life or overheating.

Would the ballasts I have blow lower wattage lights or be OK do you think ?

May not actually instantly blow but would certainly shorten there life span considerably

If light spectrum is not really relevant as long as its within certain levels, why is there so much fuss made about replacing tubes regularly ? Is that
just from the aesthetic point too, or is it really only appropriate to marines?

You tell me, apparently certain types of bulbs only lose 20% of there light intensity before they are due to blow/not work. the changing the bulbs on the marines side at 6 month individuals is generally halide bulbs (i know nothing about halides) they must lose there abilities after this point. You would need somebody more in the knowledge on the marines t really answer this. The aesthetics though do work the same to a certain degree, certain light combinations bring out the colours better in certain corals as 'apparently' the different bulbs actually grow corals better?... again though someone more into marines i guess could answer this.

I am hoping the Apistos will breed so I would like to have the water lower than neutral tbh.

Apistos are not exactly the hardest fish to breed and if you look in the relevant section, i'm sure you will find countless memebers that have bred them in all sorts of conditions succesfully.

 

[mishmash]

Thanks again fisheyjake Very informative and you put it across in an easy to understand way

I think there may be a lamp out there that has two spectrums in one (much like the marine/actinic one I have) so i will look around. That will give me 1.5w/g. Do you think I would still need ferts and CO2 at that level (even if not, would it still benefit ? I want my plants to grow well and quickly and am happy to do the necessary trimming as and when necessary).

If I do go down the ferts/CO2 route, what do you suggest ? I don't have a large budget.

Oh, and can the marine actinic spectrum cause any problem with non marine plant growth ? Im thinking not but wanted to check anyway.

 

[JenCliBee]

Thanks again fisheyjake Very informative and you put it across in an easy to understand way

No problem mate, glad it made sense

I think there may be a lamp out there that has two spectrums in one (much like the marine/actinic one I have) so i will look around. That will give me 1.5w/g. Do you think I would still need ferts and CO2 at that level (even if not, would it still benefit ? I want my plants to grow well and quickly and am happy to do the necessary trimming as and when necessary).

Tbh i still think 1.5wpg would benefit from having a co2 source and the addition of extra ferts. If it was 1wpg and you were adding a nutrient rich substrate, you may have gotten away with it. My lighting on the 60l is 0.9wpg and i'm still dosing carbon and ferts daily.

If I do go down the ferts/CO2 route, what do you suggest ? I don't have a large budget.

With 1.5wpg you could quite easily get away with a co2 alternative like easy life easy carbo (co2 supplement) and something like an all in one mix, tropica plant nutrition + is the favoured. If you want the ferts to be even cheaper you could by the dry powders and make your own (it really is very simple). This would work out far cheaper and last you a much longer period of time .

Oh, and can the marine actinic spectrum cause any problem with non marine plant growth ? Im thinking not but wanted to check anyway.

Marine actinic is a blue spectrum isn't it?, even though this wouldn't actually harm the plants, i wouldn't be adding it as a light source. I wouldn't imagine the blue to be optimum for plants and even though they probably would adjust, blue spectrum may cause growth deformities?.

 

[ian]

apparently the marine spectrum will grow plants...however marine bulbs look horrible in a planted tank (obviosly this is from personal experience), plants just don't look right due to the blue tinge. But the plants will grow.

 

[mishmash]

apparently the marine spectrum will grow plants...however marine bulbs look horrible in a planted tank (obviosly this is from personal experience), plants just don't look right due to the blue tinge. But the plants will grow.

Thanks ianho. Know any salty members who want to buy an Interpet T5 sompact 36w combo marine 10,00k and actinic lamp ? LOL

 

[mishmash]

apparently the marine spectrum will grow plants...however marine bulbs look horrible in a planted tank (obviosly this is from personal experience), plants just don't look right due to the blue tinge. But the plants will grow.

Thanks ianho. Know any salty members who want to buy an Interpet T5 sompact 36w combo marine 10,00k and actinic lamp ? LOL

Just want to put a word in for Maidenhead Aquatics Hickstead. Great helpful staff up there, and I took the above mentioned combo marine/actinic lamp in, and they swapped it for a more suitable lamp for my aquarium

I also got some JBL aquabasis substrate and am now wondering whether to just use that or top it off with some sand or something else. I dont want anything that will affect my carbonate hardness. I like Limpopo but read on here that it raised the pH a little. Anyone used Manado ? That is another possibility. I would use the Argos playsand (and may still do for budgetary reasons) but I would prefer a darker substrate. Pity they dont do that playsand in different colours, lol.