Getting Ready For Salt

[TigerIssey]

Hi all

I have intended for some time to convert my current 55G south american tank to Saltwater, this will not happen for another 3-4 yrs, I have not yet finished with what I intended to achieve in that tank. We actually planned for it to be saltwater when the freshwater was still in the planning stages, it helped when purchasing the tank.

Following the demise of my betta, we had a rethink about what to do with the PFK Aquacube and decided it was to become a quarantine/ hospital tank and possible fry tank. After selling my old 105 litre tall octagonal tank at the weekend for more than it cost me nearly 3 yrs ago I needed another tank for when my angels and rams pair (just as emergancy and holding tank until they are sold. After reading many posts on here and other forums I decided I wanted to try a nano tank (not the best to start with but I am prepared to put in the required amount of time and effort). I went out on Tuesday and bought a 20 UK gallon long tank and hood. I already had spare lights and heater so it is at present waiting until my darlings fall in love and pair.

I am in the planning stages for my nano reef and wish for a little help and feedback before I start to purchase the equipment, some things will be upgraded after the tank is set up such as lighting and adding a HOB refugium. I am going to tell you now my plans, I hope they will work. I wish to take my time with this tank, and will not be rushing any part at all. I have ordered a DVD of 101 common Marine Fishes so that my other half can see what fishes he likes, it also gives details of feeding, tank size, adult size etc for all fish featured. The only fish we know we will have is a pair of juvenile tank bred ocellaris or tank bred percula clown fish. (PS I have not even seen the Disney film, we both like the fish).

Tank

30"x15"x12" lxhxw
Volume 89litres / 20 UK gal / 23.5 US gal

Filtration

LR - I worked out I needed 16kg, I intend to use 10kg Fuji Grade A and 6kg base rock.
Do I need any type of power filter for carbon / phosphate remover or can I use the refugium once purchased or just put bags of media behind rockwork?

Substrate

1x20lb bag Arag Alive
1 bag (smallest and not all) Aragonite sugar sand
To depth of 1 - 1 1/2 " is this ok?

Lights

T8
1x Arcadia marine white 18W 24"
1x Arcadia marine actinic 18W 24"

I have further T8 light ballasts if I need extra, if I do which tube or tubes should I add and what light schedule should I use. Can I have any corals at all with T8 or do I need to upgrade first?

Circulation
2x 760lph powerheads

Protein Skimmer

Aquamedic Internal protein skimmer Midiflotor (up to 100g / 400l)
Pump for skimmer 108lph

I chose this one as I can use it in the 55g when I swap the nano into the 55g

Refugium (to be added a few months after - keeping initial costs down)

360lph powerhead
arc pod 11w compact
Plan to add live rock rubble and chaeto.


We intend to buy an RO unit but again initially (perhaps a few months) I will get RO water / RO saltwater from LFS. Obviously then there are the sundries that need to be purchased which I am happy that I am ok with, they will be purchased at start up.

Is there anything glaringly wrong with what I am planning, will this work. When I do set up the 55g, everything from the 20g will be moved over as there are a couple of L260 plecs and Rams I wish to keep in the 20g.

Any help / advice / constructive critism is welcomed, please help.
Tina

 

[Kipperhips]

Hi and Welcome Tiger!!

Firstly can i recomend Rowaphos!! this should be used as soon as you start!
it goes into the ref in a little sock adding at this stage will avoid phosphate building up in the LR live rock
as my tank has just been setup i used it and can see comparing with those who dont use it the difference.

Liverock! my tank is 128l its a boyu tl550 i have 3 kg in the ref and 20kg in the display!!

Welcome!!
Kip

 

[TigerIssey]

Hi and Welcome Tiger!!

Thank you

Firstly can i recomend Rowaphos!! this should be used as soon as you start!

Yes this is on my list of things to get, I can just put this in a media bag or stocking then, is that OK?

Liverock! my tank is 128l its a boyu tl550 i have 3 kg in the ref and 20kg in the display!!

Is my amount ok or should I add more / less ?

 

[ben1987]

Hey,

Too much live rock in the display tank can cause you problems. The goal is to have enough bio filteration and make the tank look nice. The filteration is done by the water flowing through powerheads around the live rock. Too much rock and the flow is restricted, stuff builds up and nitrate factories are started. In that tank i would get 10KG to start, create the look you want and make sure there is enough flow around the whole tank and then you can maybe add a bit more later. The rule is usualyl end up with around 1LB per gallon. 2.2LB's per Kilp

rowaphos comes with a bag to put it into, if you have an old external filter i would reccomend putting it in there and remove all the media, it is most efficient under high flow. Some LR rubble would work in there too.

Soft corals should be ok under T8's, depends on the depth and the coral. Best way to gauge it is to try a cheap xenia frag of mushroom and see how you get on

Id buy a bucket of salt and just plain ro water if i were you. Most LFS dont sell the 1.026 required to keep corals, they sell it lower so save money. PLus you can adjust it yourself and you will get used to working with salt and ro ready for the big tank

 

[TigerIssey]

In that tank i would get 10KG to start, create the look you want and make sure there is enough flow around the whole tank and then you can maybe add a bit more later. The rule is usualyl end up with around 1LB per gallon. 2.2LB's per Kilp

Very helpful thank you. I will dispense with the base rock then.

rowaphos comes with a bag to put it into, if you have an old external filter i would reccomend putting it in there and remove all the media, it is most efficient under high flow. Some LR rubble would work in there too.

Unfortunately the only external I have is on the 55g. I will keep an eye out on ebay and aquarium classifieds (and here) for a second hans external, I presume just a small one will do, no need to overfilter as I would in freshwater?

Soft corals should be ok under T8's, depends on the depth and the coral. Best way to gauge it is to try a cheap xenia frag of mushroom and see how you get on

Would the two tubes I have listed be ok or should I add another couple T8's, I do have two spare controllers. If I need extra which extra tubes should I get, white or actinic. The depth of the tank is 12", would you recommend reflectors with those aswell?

Id buy a bucket of salt and just plain ro water if i were you. Most LFS dont sell the 1.026 required to keep corals, they sell it lower so save money. PLus you can adjust it yourself and you will get used to working with salt and ro ready for the big tank

I am not waiting to get the big tank up before buying the RO machine, I will get it probably within 6 months of setting the tank up, just wanted to spread the outlay costs a little. Can you recommend a reef salt brand, obviously I will upgrade the lighting for other corals but wanted to wait till the tank had matured a bit, and again it spreads the cost a little.

Lastly, thanks for the reply, all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[ben1987]

All the external will do is provide decent flow around the phos remover and any LR rubble you decide to put in there, so no need to over filter really. Just any you can get your hands on. It will also contribute to the flow of the tank too, which for corals you want to aim minimum of 20X tank volume per hour.

If you can get four bulbs above it do it, two should keep some corals but four may be ok for LPS too. Just be careful of evaporation and heat. Evaporated water needs to be topped up regular with fresh RO, as salt doesnt go with it so the SG in the tank will rise.

D&D salt seems good, TMC coral grade one is good also. Thats what i use, its synthetic with all trace eliments in. Because its synthetice the particles are really fine so dissolve very quickly. Just make sure its a reef grade one if you intend to keep corals

 

[TigerIssey]

If you can get four bulbs above it do it, two should keep some corals but four may be ok for LPS too. Just be careful of evaporation and heat. Evaporated water needs to be topped up regular with fresh RO, as salt doesnt go with it so the SG in the tank will rise.

Ok initially then I will start with the two. Don't want to have to top up too often until I need to. Once at the stage where I would like to try adding the lps, I will put the extra tubes on then, one white and one actinic, is this ok?

I had read about using reef salt if you intended to go with corals, I think there was another post on here somewhere. For the topping up, as the lfs is a way away, would distilled be ok. I read about adding a conditioner to the RO water before using, is this right and would I need to add that to distilled before topping off.

I hope I am not bugging you with questions, rather have everything right in my head first.

 

[Revision17]

RO water "conditioner" will usually have calcium and magnesium salts.. really only useful for freshwater aquaria. Straight RO is best for top off, since you don't want to be adding more salts in your topoff (kalkwasser may be the exception here).

Distilled and RO are probably equally good for this purpose. RO is significantly cheaper (if you buy an RO filter).

As far as buying "reef salt" or "reef crystals", I wouldn't bother. There are plenty of people with incredible tanks who just use Instant Ocean (or whatever the low-end salt is on your side of the pond). If you need calcium or alkalinity (if you're keeping calcifiying critters), you can add it later.

 

[seffieuk]

to the salty side

Seffie x

 

[TigerIssey]

to the salty side

Seffie x

Thank you. I have read your journey. Was such a shame you lost your mandarin. I would like to leave space in my stocking plan to allow one of these at a later date. I have been looking on a website tonight that supplies the copepods and amphipods to supplement what you have in your refugium. If I remember correctly, yours was wild caught and your sisters tank bred. I will definatley look for TB when the time comes. Not sure yet whether I will attempt to keep it in the 20g or wait for the 55g, either way the tank will be well mature by the time I add it. I want to look at the stocking plan as a whole first. Due to the fact that I know I will be moving everything over to the 55g I want to stock the nano with the plans for the 55g in mind. Then hopefully you all will be able to tell me which to add in the nano and which to wait until the 55g is up for. We should get the DVD to watch in the next few days, hoping my other half can at least tell me the kinds of fish he wants in there, as I say the clowns and eventually mandarin are the only ones we know we want at the moment.

As far as buying "reef salt" or "reef crystals", I wouldn't bother. There are plenty of people with incredible tanks who just use Instant Ocean (or whatever the low-end salt is on your side of the pond). If you need calcium or alkalinity (if you're keeping calcifiying critters), you can add it later.

Thanks for advice, however I am going to go with what Ben1987 (is that your birth year, if it is I feel old) has said and get the reef salt, I saw a post on here that swapped to reef half way through the journal, it seemed to make alot of difference to the corals.

Distilled and RO are probably equally good for this purpose. RO is significantly cheaper (if you buy an RO filter).

I will be buying one but it will be a few months down the line, wanting to spread some costs a little. I ask about distilled because I work in a hospital lab, we have it on tap through a filter, just for topping off evaporation, I will be allowed a little, we can for batteries and irons (stops limescale in your iron).

Thanks once again any help at all is greatly appreciated. I am starting to wish the angelfish would hurry up and pair in the 55g, I can then at least get the rock in and start rock watching, but still, I need to get equipment sorted first though.

QUOTE
If you can get four bulbs above it do it, two should keep some corals but four may be ok for LPS too. Just be careful of evaporation and heat. Evaporated water needs to be topped up regular with fresh RO, as salt doesnt go with it so the SG in the tank will rise.


Ok initially then I will start with the two. Don't want to have to top up too often until I need to. Once at the stage where I would like to try adding the lps, I will put the extra tubes on then, one white and one actinic, is this ok?

As far as the extra tubes go, is the plan for one white and one actinic extra ok for when I start on LPS??

Tina

Edit

QUOTE
Soft corals should be ok under T8's, depends on the depth and the coral. Best way to gauge it is to try a cheap xenia frag of mushroom and see how you get on


Would the two tubes I have listed be ok or should I add another couple T8's, I do have two spare controllers. If I need extra which extra tubes should I get, white or actinic. The depth of the tank is 12", would you recommend reflectors with those aswell?

Made a mistake, the tank depth is 12" the height is 15". I suppose the ones that need more light can be put nearer the top of the tank if the extra 3" makes much of a difference.

 

[ben1987]

yep i was 21 this december

3 whites and one blue would look nice, when adding corals that are more light dependant add them higher up. Allow room for growth though if your sticking them down.
There was something else i was gunna put but ive forgot now...
i would wait for your manadarin til the 55's ready btw, purple fire fish or a blenny mite be nice in the 20. Have a look at the pics on here
http/www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquariu...pplies.cfm?c=15

 

[TigerIssey]

I thought it may be better to wait for the 55 for the mandarin, it lets me get experience with the nano anyway, last thing I want to do is kill it.
The other half for some reason does not seem to like the purple fire fish, have not got a clue why!! its beautiful. He does however like some of the blennies, cannot remember which off the top of my head.

I am really not sure of the kind of fish he does like, he seems to like stupid choices like the picasso trigger fish, which would not even fit in the 55. I think it has something to do with him seeing them when diving in the red sea last year (for my 30th birthday! see said I feel old) he also likes the niger trigger. I can see us getting a huge tank a few years after the 55g is converted!! The DVD has been dispatched may come this morning and we are planning some trips to lfs's this weekend so that he can actually look at some fish. I am very conscious that in a few years the choices we make now will affect what we can have then, so I want to get some idea on the 55 g stocking aswell.

How many fish and to a maximum of what size (am thinking max 6-8") can I fit in the 55g. Dimensions 48" long 22" tall 15 " deep, I know I will need to do something with the standard lights in this, will think about that before I swap.

Right the lights, if I go for your suggestion, I will wait till I have kept some corals with the two lights first then add the extra two white tubes. What kind of lighting schedule do I need with these. I know lighting should be on 10-12 hrs a day. How would I time them for two lights and four please.

Sorry to hear about your mandarin by the way, read your journal earlier, did you find out if there was a crab or anything attacking your fish?? Seemed a coincidence you had not long added some LR.

Thanks loads for the help,
Tina

 

[ben1987]

erm...no not found anything yet. Hope to have a good look at the rock when i move tanks over the weekend, if i get stuff sorted in time!

I would always go with fish that stay smaller than the maximum, the problems with marines is they are quite aggressive. They look more natural - small fish in a big tank.

Its the charictor of blennys that make people love em. they are so funny to watch. Looking at pics just doesnt give you any idea. Mine has a hole he likes, and reverses into it and chills out, he also sleeps in a shell curled up.

I have my blue tubes on for 12 hours, with whites on for 10.
At 22" high on the 55Gal halides will be the best lighting option.

 

[TigerIssey]

Its the charictor of blennys that make people love em. they are so funny to watch. Looking at pics just doesnt give you any idea. Mine has a hole he likes, and reverses into it and chills out, he also sleeps in a shell curled up.

Thats why I am hoping this DVD will help, at least get some idea. I like blennies and gobies myself, both seem to have that peeping type nature, where they scoot about and peep at you out of holes, hopefully going to the shops will help aswell, need him to understand that colours are different in juvenile fish and fish always look better settled in the aquarium than in a shop. He automatically heads for the biggest and brightest in shop. I must admit, that is why we are having clowns, I could spend hrs in shops watching them.

I would always go with fish that stay smaller than the maximum, the problems with marines is they are quite aggressive. They look more natural - small fish in a big tank.

To be honest thats the way I have always stocked f/w tanks, I like seeing large numbers of a smaller species rather than a couple of large fish. Just have to get this into other halfs head.

I have my blue tubes on for 12 hours, with whites on for 10.
At 22" high on the 55Gal halides will be the best lighting option.

Thanks for that, I really didn't want to go with halides due to the electricity cost, I live extremely rural and have have to light half a hamlet as it is. I really need to look into it or hope electricity costs come down by the time I switch over. The other thing is that I really don't want an open top with a ballast over the top. The tank is in prime position in the living room and would seriously hinder watching an LCD TV. Also our ceiling is over 12 ft high and vaulted so I don't want lights hanging either and would look daft on a wall bracket. I think I am hoping that someone brings out some suitable LED lights capable of growing the corals I want. Its funny, I have 2x30W tubes over the tank at the moment and have crazy plant growth. Cabomba has grown 8" in 2 weeks, weird.

Good luck with the tank swap, that will not be an easy job, bad enough for me swapping from 105 litre to 55g freshwater.
Tina

 

[ben1987]

You can get legs for halides then put a pelmet round the top of the tank. Then it ll sits on the top of the tank and the light is kept in.

If you get halides with electronic ballasts they are pretty efficient. A pair of 150's over a 4' tank would be fine for softies and lps, then probably some sps up at the top. That will run at just over the 300W So its not as bad as you think. You could easily use 300W worth of tubes above that tank.