General Help Please?

[CluelessScot]

Hello all... i have came across this forum about a week ago and its really made me want to start up an aquarium, but i have read how easy it is to get it so wrong i would like to get everything sorted now before i have anything and have the chance to mess it up lol

I wasnt sure about Prices of tanks and i couldnt really find much on rough costs but yesterday i went to a fish shop (well a guys house in the country side with a huge selection of fish/tanks ect... he offered me a 38 gallon tank complete with filter, heater, hood, light, plants gravel and other bits and bobs for maintenance. For all this he said he could give to me for £130 and i thought this was very good compared to the big pet store in town as for the tank alone there cost about £200~250? I had a look at it and it all looks good to me, but im no professional. If i am to go ahead and buy this set up (which i think i mite just) what kinda fish can i put in here and whats the best set up for this? i like the idea of a commuinity set up..

 

[spanishguy111]

Hello all... i have came across this forum about a week ago and its really made me want to start up an aquarium, but i have read how easy it is to get it so wrong    i would like to get everything sorted now before i have anything and have the chance to mess it up lol

I wasnt sure about Prices of tanks and i couldnt really find much on rough costs but yesterday i went to a fish shop (well a guys house in the country side with a huge selection of fish/tanks ect... he offered me a 38 gallon tank complete with filter, heater, hood, light, plants gravel and other bits and bobs for maintenance. For all this he said he could give to me for £130 and i thought this was very good compared to the big pet store in town as for the tank alone there cost about £200~250? I had a look at it and it all looks good to me, but im no professional. If i am to go ahead and buy this set up (which i think i mite just) what kinda fish can i put in here and whats the best set up for this? i like the idea of a commuinity set up..

 

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Ok well first off thumbs up to you for not making any impulsive buys and asking around first.

First of all, welcome to the world of aquariums. You've chosen the best hobby. You've also put a large amount of research ahead of yourself. Check out my "Common newbie mistakes" thread in this forum. Read about "Cycling", the nitrogen cycle, filtration, current, temperature, and the different kinds of fish you want, before you set anything up.

38 Gallons is a good size. It gives you a nice amount of room to play with and move into some slightly larger fish as you progress with your knowledge. I don't think its a bad size to start with.

130 pounds sounds low to me. I warn you- its an expensive hobby. Expect to pay an extra 300 pounds for all the fish, food, and supplies you'll need. Be aware that fish eat all kinds of things, not just a cheap can of flake. You'll be spending many more pounds on bags of frozen specialty foods, vegetable foods, and all kinds of things to meet the nutritional requirements of the fish you get.

I suggest you start with something uncomplicated. The following are my suggestions for equipment you should purchase to run a 38 gallon tank. Additionally- NEVER BUY A PACKAGE. Much like building your own computer, always buy everything seperately. Some might disagree. I used to work in a pet shop I think I have some clout .

38 or 35 gallon tank (they're both 36x12" wide. the 38 is 3" taller).
Filter: Marineland Emperor 280 or
Hagen Aquaclear 300<---I suggest this, filled with three sponge inserts.

Heater: A 200 Watt heater. Recommended types include: Ebo Jager, Theo by Hydor, Hagen Tronic

Glass top -or- plastic canopy- your preference. Whatever you get, you'll notice there are bits you can cut or snap off in the back. Make sure you do this to size to fit your heater and filter. Ideally this should be snug so no fish can jump out and also so that not so much water evaporates. Additionally the higher humidity in the air is beneficial for any labyrinth fish you might have.

Lighting: Look for a Coralife Fw/T5 lighting strip. Two bulbs, 36" long. Its one of the cheapest double bulb lights and looks exxxtremely good. Also very good for plants should you want some.

Stand: Make sure you put this thing on a bloody aquarium stand- this cant be overstated. That tank will weigh in excess of four hundred pounds when full of water. You dont want it on an angle or uneven surface. Get yourself one of those levelling rulers and make sure you level the stand perfect with wooden shims, ideally. (leave enough room between the back of the tank and the wall so your filter fits there). Wood stands look nicest, but are rather pricy. A steel stand will do you fine- despite its modest looks- and is very very strong and sturdy.

Oh- and dont get that disgusting fluorescent gravel. I suggest "Estes Spectrastone". Comes in a beautiful mix of colors and there's never ever a sharp edge in the lot- which is a blessing if you've ever seen what can happen to catfish who rub agains sharp edges.

Now as for fish. You'll want something interesting, but not hard to take care of. You'll want to find out from your more knowledgeable petshops what your local pH is and also your gH or "Hardness". This will tell us whether you're best suited to say, some trichogaster gouramis and some platys and some bushynose plecos, or maybe a few hardy african cichlids. We'll go from there. But the first step is to get the tank with the right equipment set up- and for you to get that info about your water for us.

Good luck.


May the force be with you.

 

[rdd1952]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I will second the thumbs up for doing your research first before jumping in. The package he offered you sounds like a great price but as stated, depending on what you are getting, it may not be (new or used tank and equipment). Find out what type filter, heater and lights are included and also a list of everything else and post it back. You will get good feed back on whether it really is a good deal or not.

It is a hobby that can get very expensive but only if you get really hooked like most of us are. If you just get one tank with some inexpensive, easy to care for fish and plants, it's not too bad. After the 3rd, 4th or 5th tank, upgrades on all your lights, more exotic fish and plants, it can add up.

It is also a great hobby. It's very enjoyable to sit and watch the fish play and swim. So peaceful. If there was only one word I could give you for advice it would be PATIENCE. If you take it slow and be patient, everything will turn out pretty easy. By doing your research first, you are already way ahead of the game.

 

[spanishguy111]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I will second the thumbs up for doing your research first before jumping in. The package he offered you sounds like a great price but as stated, depending on what you are getting, it may not be (new or used tank and equipment). Find out what type filter, heater and lights are included and also a list of everything else and post it back. You will get good feed back on whether it really is a good deal or not.

It is a hobby that can get very expensive but only if you get really hooked like most of us are. If you just get one tank with some inexpensive, easy to care for fish and plants, it's not too bad. After the 3rd, 4th or 5th tank, upgrades on all your lights, more exotic fish and plants, it can add up.

It is also a great hobby. It's very enjoyable to sit and watch the fish play and swim. So peaceful. If there was only one word I could give you for advice it would be PATIENCE. If you take it slow and be patient, everything will turn out pretty easy. By doing your research first, you are already way ahead of the game.

[snapback]912051[/snapback]​

Good points. And fish don't have to be hard to take care of to be cool!
I love my platys and they're easier to keep than a shoebox of dirt

Aren't they cute? All orange and in a ball like that? With the two up front coming to see what the hell I'm doing with the camera bothering them while they're trying to eat?

 

[CluelessScot]

WoW, *impressed at the feedback already*

i will go and see the guy again on wednesday and get the full details of what i get for my money... ill take a note of make/model of the components and see what you all think.

From reading some of the posts i see that this can be a very addcting hobby lol i wasnt sure if going for a large tank to start with was a good idea or not, but well if your gonna do something i suppose its best to do it right eh?

i know it will be some time before i can get to adding fish but i have done some reading up on some fish and here is what i would like to add, kinda a dram list at the mo

For a 38 gallon tank i worked out depending on size, tank set up and agressive/community.

Three lined cory or Panda cory - Both should expect to grow to 2" and best kept in a group of 4+ they like a panted tank and sand or small rounded gravel. they are both peacefull community fish.

Cardinal Tetra - They grow to 2" they are a group fish (schooling?) they like planted tank, peacefull community fish and they like soft water conditions...

Ram Cichlid - was kinda worried about this one as i heard that cichlids are aggressive but i had a read up on this and found out that they are a very peaceful cichlid, which may be bullied by aggressive tankmates. They may however, show some aggression when spawning. They like a planted tank with fairly soft water conditions. The ram cichlid also grows to 3"

Dwarf gourami - These grow to 2" and like a planted tank. They are normally peaceful, but may become territorial with other gouramies or similar fish. they like soft to medium water conditions.

wasnt sure if adding a Dwarf gourami and a Ram Cichlid would cause a problem?

thats what i have found out about the fish i would like to keep but if any info is wrong please correct me. They are all 2~3", they all like to have a planted tank, mostly like soft~medium water conditions and all seem rather peaceful. Also most of the fish there are from South America... all except the Gourami (india) not sure ifthat effects anything?

But anyway im not really close to adding fish lol i dont have a tank but its nice to think about it and plan ahead..

Any suggestions about plant... not done much looking into plants so i mite do that.

Thanks again

 

[spanishguy111]

Sorry mate but nope, nope, nope, and nope.

None of those are suitable beginner fish. The panda is amongst the most fragile of corys. Threelines aren't bad. But if you're bent on corys, I suggest the bronze. It's been captive bred for a long time and hasn't been cross bred, in bred, or branched off very badly. It grows a little larger, which isnt a problem.

You have a thirty eight GALLON, not thirty eight liter. What do you want a (fragile and wimpy) dwarf gourami for? You can get a nice big 6" three spot gourami in your choice of blue or gold, and its one of the hardiest of freshwater aquarium fish.

Rams are extremely delicate animals. Big fat X. I've been keeping fish for three years (extremely meticulously though and constant research) and I still don't feel I can provide an adequate home for a Ram. A KEY MISTAKE you make here is you say you were worried about the rams disposition- well what about its water preferences. Do you know how to make soft water with an acidic pH? Exactly.
Water is the most important thing for a fish. And not all water is the same. You can drink or shower in water thats 6.5, or 7.5 pH. You won't likely know the difference. But you could take a fish from one water and drop him into the other and he'd be dead in an hour or two of shock.

I get the feeling you're saying what fish you want based on pictures rather than behaviour and how they'd interact. Not a great idea. I suggest you go into a store, convince the owner you arent nuts FIRST, then stare at the fish you want for two hours. You'll get a very good idea of its habits and disposition. I had the opportunity to work at a store, and so I've got a much better idea than a lot of people of what a lot of different animals behaviours are.

Remember, you dont want to start with things you're going to kill or make sick. Its discouraging. Get tough easy to manage animals, and when you still have them a year or two down the line and they're big and healthy you'll feel very proud of your accomplishment

 

[CluelessScot]

lol this is why i posted well in advance thanks

what do you think are good hardie community fish?

also ive been reading about over crowding but the otherday i was in pets at home or acorn pets i think and in 1 tank, about 30 gallons they hadabout 100 neons and about 20 other different fish... aint that bad for them?
lol actully seeming all those neons together was nice. they look good as a big group but i heard a woman saying that all the fish in 5 of the tanks lookedvery stressed and she wouldnt buy anything from those tanks...

 

[spanishguy111]

lol this is why i posted well in advance thanks

what do you think are good hardie community fish?

also ive been reading about over crowding but the otherday i was in pets at home or acorn pets i think and in 1 tank, about 30 gallons they hadabout 100 neons and about 20 other different fish... aint that bad for them?
lol actully seeming all those neons together was nice. they look good as a big group but i heard a woman saying that all the fish in 5 of the tanks lookedvery stressed and she wouldnt buy anything from those tanks...

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Ya thats overkill. There are those who just dont care. Any way you put it 100 neons in a 30 gal is too much. Now 60 or 70 wouldnt be, provided there wasnt much else in there. Discount the "Inch per gallon" rule right off the bat. Its a good way to stay safe, but you can overstep it a fair bit.

If you were my friend and I was coming with you to the store, this is what I'd tell you to get (assuming a pH of between 7 and 7.8) which most of the world's water is:

Two three spot gouramis (male and female) blue or gold

A school of (your choice) 10 Whitecloud mountain minnows or 7 Platys (any color, 2 males 5 females), or phantom tetras, black or red.

a bushy or bristlenose pleco for the bottom and for algae

and a couple of loaches for basic cleanup. Probably tiger or Yo yo.

I'd just leave it at that for quite some time while you got used to the hobby.
Remember bottom feeders need their own special food they dont just eat scraps.

 

[CluelessScot]

hmm nice only thing is... what are the chances of the gourami's spawning?
im a novice and not sure if i could handle it lol

 

[CluelessScot]

I was looking in the Picture sections looking for ideas most of them look great even without fish. is it possible for a novice to keep tanks like these or would it just be to high maintenance?

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=106669

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=108010

http/www.ratemyfishtank.com/friendEmail.php/imID1132

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=37983

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=24327

they all seem abit to much for a begginer but looking at them justs makes me want to get into this even more

 

[spanishguy111]

hmm nice only thing is... what are the chances of the gourami's spawning?
im a novice and not sure if i could handle it lol

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It depends on how well you keep them. Not to be rude, but for you, being new, 0%. I've spawned them by accident. But it was a pristine tank with almost no current and they were about the only thing in there.

 

[spanishguy111]

I was looking in the Picture sections looking for ideas  most of them look great even without fish. is it possible for a novice to keep tanks like these or would it just be to high maintenance?

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=106669

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=108010

http/www.ratemyfishtank.com/friendEmail.php/imID1132

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=37983

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=24327

they all seem abit to much for a begginer but looking at them justs makes me want to get into this even more 

[snapback]912114[/snapback]​

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=24327 is the nice looking one which is most attainable. If you REALLLLLLY do your research, a tank with some nice tetras and angelfish, driftwood, java fern and anubias could be only 100 days or so in your future. However- REALLLY research, like come home from work, ignore the girlfriend and your mates, don't hit the pub, go directly to your nearest chair and read read read


Now...

here's an example of when you cross the line from aquarium to masterpiece. This is what we all strive for but rarely achieve.

Nirvana. In water. With fish in it. In a glass box. Precariously positioned on a wooden box... exerting a massive amount of weight on a floor that was never designed to take it...

Aaaaaaahhhhh bliss.

 

[CluelessScot]

lol sounds like a plan

 

[dwarfgourami]

Hi!

Can I add a few fish to Spanishguy's stocking list? I love stocking other people's tanks (my platy is busy stocking my tank so I don't get to do that).

What fish you can start with depends on how you do your cycling. Cycling is the process of encouraging enough friendly bacteria to grow to deal with the fish's waste. You can either cycle with fish or fishless. Read up the pinned topics above!

If you cycle with fish, only a few fish are hardy enough to cope with the cycling process, so you would have to add a few of those first and then add your other fish very gradually after the readings of ammonia and nitrite had disappeared.

If you cycle fishless (add ammonia from bottle every day until readings for ammonia and nitrites disappear), once the process is finished you can then add any fish that are not specifically stated to need a mature tank. Hardy corys, many tetras, the common livebearers etc, you get quite a wide choice.

As Spanishguy said, most of the fish you mentioned are not terribly hardy and some perhaps best avoided until you have more experience. But there is plenty to choose from.

Corys. Bronzes are a very good choice. The albinos you see in the shop are usually a colour morph of bronze. The peppered corys are also hardy and easy to keep. I've got those and they're gorgeous. Corys like to be in schools, have a hiding place and to be fed catfish pellets or tablets, with vegetable and bloodworm now and then.
Then again the bristlenose would be a nice alternative. They have the advantage of eating algae which corys do not do.

Cardinal tetras. Are supposed to be slightly hardier than neons, but that is probably not saying a lot. I'd check out other tetras if I were you, have a poke round the shops and then post in the characin forum to find out the hardiness of any species that takes your fancy. Spanishguy mentioned WCM's, they are a lovely fish, like slightly cooler water, so may not go well with gouramis, but fine with many corys.

Instead of tetras you might want to look at rasboras. Often slightly hardier, nice schooling behaviour.

With a nice-sized tank like that, you might want to consider a shoal of danios instead. Very active, hardy fish.

Rams/Gouramis. What you're looking for here is a centrepiece fish.
Well, probably better to wait with the rams. Lots of people have problems with them. And as Spanishguy says, for gouramis you'll be better off with a bigger hardier kind than the dwarf, which is very inbred and very sensitive to parasites etc these days. Two-spot or maybe lace/pearl gouramis, a trio (2 females, 1 male) should work well. Though they may find danios a bit too active. With gouramis you need to make sure you are not keeping any fin-nipping fish. Rasboras should be fine.
It is unlikely that you will have any breeding problems in the sense of being overrun; gouramis seldom breed in a community tank and if they do the babies are unlikely to survive. The same goes for most egglayers, though bristlenoses have been known to bring up babies quite happily in a community.

Then there are livebearers. Platys are lovely little fish, colourful and sociable, or if you wanted a bit more action you could go for swordtails. In either case, unless you are keeping one sex only, make sure you have a ratio of at least 2 females to every male, as livebearer males are extremely highly sexed and never listen to any excuses about headaches... A lone female in a tank of males would soon die from sexual exhaustion. Livebearers do breed without encouragement; it is enough for a female to have been in contact with a male once, and she can produce up to 7 batches of fry.

Whatever you do, be careful not to overstock, particularly with livebearers as they will see to that themselves.... Never, ever go by what you see in a shop, they have to keep their tanks grossly overstocked to earn a living. The fish cope because of massive filtration (totally different kind from a home tank) and from the fact that they are only in there for a few days. It's like being crammed on a busy bus; you can survive for a few hours, but it's not much of a quality of life.

Good luck and enjoy yourself!

 

[spanishguy111]

Hi!

Can I add a few fish to Spanishguy's stocking list? I love stocking other people's tanks (my platy is busy stocking my tank so I don't get to do that).

What fish you can start with depends on how you do your cycling. Cycling is the process of encouraging enough friendly bacteria to grow to deal with the fish's waste. You can either cycle with fish or fishless. Read up the pinned topics above!

If you cycle with fish, only a few fish are hardy enough to cope with the cycling process, so you would have to add a few of those first and then add your other fish very gradually after the readings of ammonia and nitrite had disappeared.

If you cycle fishless (add ammonia from bottle every day until readings for ammonia and nitrites disappear), once the process is finished you can then add any fish that are not specifically stated to need a mature tank. Hardy corys, many tetras, the common livebearers etc, you get quite a wide choice.

As Spanishguy said, most of the fish you mentioned are not terribly hardy and some perhaps best avoided until you have more experience. But there is plenty to choose from.

Corys. Bronzes are a very good choice. The albinos you see in the shop are usually a colour morph of bronze. The peppered corys are also hardy and easy to keep. I've got those and they're gorgeous. Corys like to be in schools, have a hiding place and to be fed catfish pellets or tablets, with vegetable and bloodworm now and then.
Then again the bristlenose would be a nice alternative. They have the advantage of eating algae which corys do not do.

Cardinal tetras. Are supposed to be slightly hardier than neons, but that is probably not saying a lot. I'd check out other tetras if I were you, have a poke round the shops and then post in the characin forum to find out the hardiness of any species that takes your fancy. Spanishguy mentioned WCM's, they are a lovely fish, like slightly cooler water, so may not go well with gouramis, but fine with many corys.

Instead of tetras you might want to look at rasboras. Often slightly hardier, nice schooling behaviour.

With a nice-sized tank like that, you might want to consider a shoal of danios instead. Very active, hardy fish.

Rams/Gouramis. What you're looking for here is a centrepiece fish.
Well, probably better to wait with the rams. Lots of people have problems with them. And as Spanishguy says, for gouramis you'll be better off with a bigger hardier kind than the dwarf, which is very inbred and very sensitive to parasites etc these days. Two-spot or maybe lace/pearl gouramis, a trio (2 females, 1 male) should work well. Though they may find danios a bit too active. With gouramis you need to make sure you are not keeping any fin-nipping fish. Rasboras should be fine.
It is unlikely that you will have any breeding problems in the sense of being overrun; gouramis seldom breed in a community tank and if they do the babies are unlikely to survive. The same goes for most egglayers, though bristlenoses have been known to bring up babies quite happily in a community.

Then there are livebearers. Platys are lovely little fish, colourful and sociable, or if you wanted a bit more action you could go for swordtails. In either case, unless you are keeping one sex only, make sure you have a ratio of at least 2 females to every male, as livebearer males are extremely highly sexed and never listen to any excuses about headaches... A lone female in a tank of males would soon die from sexual exhaustion. Livebearers do breed without encouragement; it is enough for a female to have been in contact with a male once, and she can produce up to 7 batches of fry.

Whatever you do, be careful not to overstock, particularly with livebearers as they will see to that themselves.... Never, ever go by what you see in a shop, they have to keep their tanks grossly overstocked to earn a living. The fish cope because of massive filtration (totally different kind from a home tank) and from the fact that they are only in there for a few days. It's like being crammed on a busy bus; you can survive for a few hours, but it's not much of a quality of life.

Good luck and enjoy yourself!

[snapback]912169[/snapback]​

Cardinal tetras. Are supposed to be slightly hardier than neons, but that is probably not saying a lot. I'd check out other tetras if I were you, have a poke round the shops and then post in the characin forum to find out the hardiness of any species that takes your fancy. Spanishguy mentioned WCM's, they are a lovely fish, like slightly cooler water, so may not go well with gouramis, but fine with many corys.

You think so? Interesting. I like how you suggest a fish you've obviously never kept before. A newbie cant keep cardinals alive. They are NOT more hardy than neons. Don't suggest tetras to newbies. I don't like your fish suggestions generally. Rams? Come on dude. Don't even say the word. You go on to contradict yourself immediately and say maybe not such a great idea.