General Advice (longish)

[Bladerunner]

Just over a year ago we bought a house and at the same time inherited the pond in the back garden.
It was built inside some decking, is triangular, is about 2m down each side and I guess just over half a meter deep.
When we took it on things were a mess - no filter, no pump, green blanket weed, algae although surprisingly quite a good population of fish.
We were no experts (still aren't really) however we believe we are the owners of numerous goldfish in a range of colours from "classic orange" through black and to white.
We also have numerous sizes, some look 15cm or so, others tiny only 2-3cm long.

Over the year a lot of work has been done.
Filter and pump system added which has resulted in the water clearing up nicely - the water flowing from the filter down the waterfall I built is these days almost clear.
The water in the pond is also clear.
We have shallowed one end with bricks and stone and this has a few plants in.
The population of fish seem happy - they all seem to follow one large white fish around and in the evening they can be found rolling around at the bottom of the waterfall.
Fish numbers are quite high (possibly too high) and we still have a range of sizes from the large to the 2-3cm length ones.

The one thing we just cannot get sorted is, I guess the layer of green "waste" or "silt" in the bottom of the pond.
I am assuming this is just the natural waste from the fish.
We were using a product called "Sludge Buster" whcih we were told would break this down and eventually totally clear it out - I'm sure the layer at the bottom isn't as bad as it was but it is certainly still there.
It isn't a major problem, however it doesn't look great as we know the water itself is quite clear but this layer makes it look green.
Also as the fish swim close to the bottom they do flip it up again making the water very cloudy.
At the end of the day I cannot help feeling that a total restart with regards the water would ultimately be the final fix, however that has it's own problems.
Our back garden is decking with pond and gravel, no grass, so removing water has to be done by bucket and then emptying down a drain - a lot of hardwork I'll tell you (I did a lot of this last year when we halved the depth of the water as we felt it was a little too deep).

I purchased a Lotus pondvac last year - didn't use it much as again I'd put it into the pond, suck up some of the green layer (along with loads of water) then as soon as it was full I'd have to drag the vac outside the garden to the drain to empty as we don't have the grass/soil to simply allow the pondvac to suck and then chuck out the water onto our garden.

After speaking to some other people online they too said ultimately emptying and restarting maybe the only option to totally clear this green waste/silt out.
However a combination of:

Plants
"Sludge Buster" or similar

Should eventually solve the problem.
The addition of "Loaches" was also suggested as apparently they are bottom feeders and feed of virtually anything.
Was this a good suggestion?
Would the addition of a couple of Loaches to a pond of what we are 99% sure are goldfish help with this problem at all or not really?
Are goldfish and loaches compatible?
Are there any other fish for outside ponds that could be considered as a help to removing this natural waste?
I'm in the UK if that makes any difference.

Sorry for the long post - just thought a little history might help with regards ideas.
Thanks in advance for any ideas anyone has.

PS. I'm not scared of hard work and if putting the pondvac in for only a couple of minutes at a time and getting a vac full of some of this green (but mainly water) and then emptying it is the only option then so be it.
I was just hoping for a more natural way witht he addition of more fish.

 

[sheba]

Hi

I would say that keeping the pond bottom clean is important and the reason why so many people fit bottom drains now. I dont have a bottom drain and as I keep koi, it makes it more important that I vac the pond on a regular basis. The build up of crud, sludge waste etc on the floor of the bottom can lead to all sorts of problems mainly aeronomas bacteria which leaves koi open to ulcers (sorry I can only speak for koi, not got goldfish)
There are lots of different pond vacs available. Some are easier than others and quickly empty. Others take longer and make the task more difficult. Obviously you have the problem of not having a 'garden' to expel all the waste water (I just pump it into the borders)
When I do mine, this incorporates a 10% water change (obvioulsy its taking water out of the pond) and this seems to keep the fish healthy and buzzing.
Ever since I invested in a pondvac I've had no more trouble with ulcers and the pond floor is nice and clear.
I've heard of sludgebuster etc (think theres others too) but I always think that the waste must go somewhere and cant be completely filtered away. Just my opinion. Good luck!
Are you sure they are all gold fish in your pond, no koi???
Try and make sure theres plenty of air in your pond. Sometimes they gather at the inlet to get more oxygen, sometimes just to eat the little bugs!

sorry so long

 

[Bladerunner]

Hi,

Thanks for your response.
I think I'm going to get the pond vac out again at the weekend and take that option.
I purchased an Oase Pondovac 2 last year (was on a special offer, assuming because the Pondovac 3 appeared in the shop soon afterwards).
The only problem with it is that is obviously sucks in water and the "sludge" until it reaches capacity.
The outlet pipe on the vac is very much designed to point at the borders of your garden so you "suck up" and then the waste is simply let out into the garden.
Because we are all decking and gravel that isn't possible.
So it will mean vac until the tank is full, take vac to drain outside house and empty.
However I cannot help feeling this is going to be the best way forward and even if it takes me the best part of a day to complete the end results will be worth it.

With the proper filter/pump and plantation now in place I am hoping that the pond floor will never get to the state it is in now (although I appreciate the vac will need to come out now and again).

I think it is possible that we do have some fish other than goldfish - I will admit that some of them do look very different from the classic orange "goldfish".
The white fish certainly seem different and there is a chance they might be koi.
Nearly all the fish follow this large white one around, I know there aren't layers of social levels with fish but it is almost as if he is in charge in the pond.
I can only assume that the very small fish are young, so the fish must be happy enough if there is some breeding going along.

Thanks again for your reply and I think I'll prepare myself for some lifting of a many times filled vac from pond to outside drain at the weekend

 

[sheba]

Well good luck, it sounds like its going to be quite abig job each time you do it.
Koi are easy to tell as they have barbels from their mouth.

 

[starrynightxxi]

it might also help if you get rid of some of those fish. it will reduce the speed that the waste builds up and might help you get an upper hand on the job. approximately how many fish do you have in there?

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Personally, i would buy a fine large net for netting out fish, but use it to net out the sludge. In my fish tanks i have very fine white silica sand, i when i need to move it i simply net it out- i find this much easier than draining the entire tank or trying to scoop it out with my hands or a container, and i am sure this same method would work fine on your pond sludge .
The sludge is from any decomposing weeds, plants or algae that are or have been in the pond- this is not a problem in small quantities, but it is full of nutritients (which can fuel algae blooms or unwanted or out of control plants in the pond) and often full of toxic (to the fish) gas that has built up from the rotting. When you remove the sludge, you should follow up by testing the water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, then do a water 40-60% change with dechlorinator/water conditioner, and follow up again with another test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates (it would also probably be a good idea to do these tests before you do anything to the pond as well).
Testing you pond for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates will give you a very good idea on whats going on with your pond water quality and ecosystem. In a healthy or mature pond, there should be no nitrites or ammonia, and nitrates should preferably be under 40. Ammonia and nitrites can come about in many ways, but more than often when the pond is overstocked or the filtration is not suitable or the beneficial bacteria, which breaks down these toxins, is not present in enough quantities to deal with the ammonia and nitrites.
Ammonia or nitrites in any quantities above 0 points to a problem, and should be dealt with quickly as both ammonia and nitrites are toxic to fish and can make them ill or even kill them- keeping good water quality is the key to keeping a healthy pond, or tank for that matter .

http/www.petsparade.co.uk/articles/?a=75

I have some questions though;
a. How many fish do you have roughly? Are they goldfish, koi, carp etc do you know?
b. Have you done any water changes on the pond (take out a percentage of the old water and replace it with new water) and if so, do you use water conditioner/dechlorinator or anything like that?
c. Do you do any maintanence on the pond pump/filter (like cleaning it out every now and then)?
d. When you say the fish "flip" on the bottom of the pond, do they appear to be trying to "itch" themselves? Fish itching or scratching themselves points to them being in discomfort, often this is a sign of water quality issues or parasites on the fish or other deseases etc.
e. How often do you feed your fish and how much/what do you feed them?
f. What is the temp in the pond throughout the year in general ?