Fry dying

[Joby]

I have a spawn that will be 4 weeks old on Monday. They are in an 8 US gallon tank, filled to the top. Water tests are perfect ph is 8.5, box filter bubbling away, heater at 82, no substrate, live and silk plants added. I change 50% of the water everyday and syphon up uneated food etc. I counted at least 110 fry within the first few days.

At about 2 weeks old I started to find bodies. I'm losing at least 4 per day but lost 8 yesterday Symptoms are that they start to go head down and tail up then go very thin and start to just aimlessly float around the tank wherever the current takes them. When they die, they very quickly fungus over. There are no visible marks on the bodies at all.

So far have not added anything at all to the tank although I have a full range of meds, just don't know what to do for the best. I have around 70 left now. They are fed live bbs twice a day and also have microworms to graze on all day.

Is this just natural die off? have not seen it on this scale before, but then have not had such a large spawn before. Do not suspect the labyrinth organ as they started dying at 2 weeks old so a little young for that. Any suggestions on what could be causing this would be greatly appreciated as its heartbreaking to keep taking out little bodies

 

[OohFeeshy]

The pH is quite high, is your tap water like that?

 

[Joby]

Yes PH is like that straight out of tap. All my other bettas and previous spawns have been ok with it.

Just for information when I say water is perfect. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5

 

[BrookeLea]

I'm not really sure, but isn't 8 gallons too small for a growout tank? I've always read that a growout tank should be a minimum of 30 gallons, but preferably more than that. Maybe that could have something to do with it?

I hope you figure it out so you don't lose anymore.

 

[Bettaman]

Just for information when I say water is perfect. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5
you didn't tell me nitrate was that high that is too high although less harmful than ammonia and nitrite it is still bad for fish in high concentration let some algae grow get it down......or put some live plant in....... DAD...

 

[Joby]

Nitrate is barely registering on the chart which is why I said 5 as that is the nearest colour, but its less than that. Isn't nitrate only dangerous when its high? My test kit is showing it at very bare minimum and my other tanks register 15 quite regularly and no problems there. There are live plants in there DAD

BrookeLea the fry are not 4 weeks old till Monday so are still in the spawning tank which is plenty big enough at 8 gallons. Will be moving them in the next week or so to a nice big grow-out should I have any left

Lost 3 so far today so whatever it is that is causing it is still taking its toll. Forgot to say that their tails clamp too as they lose their balance.

Edited as spelt BrookeLea's name wrong )

 

[wuvmybetta]

The nitrate isn't the cause of it, I can almost promise you that. I do think that 82 is a bit warm and I know if my spawn tanks were that warm I would most certainly try to bring it down a bit, but that's just me.
Have you looked closely at them with a flashlight? Do they have any goldish speckling on them, such as velvet?
Is everyone eating? Are they getting enough food?
I usually ditch the microworms at about three weeks and feed them mainly brine up until four weeks,several times a day because at that age they just can't get enough to eat.The mw's are just a snack at that age. At four weeks old they should be moving up to better things to encourage growth.

You say you've been syphoning out uneaten food which blows my mind because there's no such thing in my tanks, they eat everything the second it hits the water after two weeks old. So, my conclusion is that you have some major bacterial problems going on. I would start doing larger water changes. Just because your ammonia tests at zero- you still have bacteria in there- especially with 70+ one months old wasting in eight gallons.
I have eight 6 week olds in a seven gallon right now and their water gets nasty daily. A 50% water change just isn't enough, in my humble opinion.

I hope they hang in there for ya, Joby. If the others seem to be perfectly fine, it could just be a natural die-off . I've had that happen before with my metallic spawns and it truly is heartbreaking and frustrating. The last thing you want to see when looking in at your babes is little deadies, I completely understand.

 

[Joby]

No dusting on them that I can see, first thing I checked for. Will slowly reduce the temp to 80. Everyone seems happy to eat and they have nice round bellies most of the time. I say I syphon off uneaten food, but its mostly just muck from them but I have tried them with frozen bbs and also some dry fry foods which they won't eat, so that is what I am syphoning off too. They have live bbs twice a day and the microworms are just a snack as I have some quite tiny ones in there and was planning on ditching those and moving them to the grow-out this monday, to give them more room, on their 4 week birthday.

Will up the water change and see how they do. I have Sovereign Silver at 10ppm could I add some of that in there? maybe pointless if I'm changing so much water so often, but was just a thought.

Thank you for your opinions Wuv, greatly appreciated

 

[GuppyDude]

the ph would have me worried, mine was 8.0 in my spawn and i lost all of mine within a couple days of hatching. 7.0 is probably the best for them. i know losieng teh fry can be distressing, but take it slowly, dont panic and risk hurting the lil guys. for changeing the ph i would get each gallon of water treated before you add it, and when u do add it, only do a lil bit at a time, a sudden change in the ph will definately kill them.

 

[Sorrell]

The pH is fine, don't worry about that. I'll second two things wuv said. First I'd bring down the temp a little. I personally do spawn in 82, but I like to lower it back 78-80 as they get older.

Second the water changes definately need to be larger. Even 50% a day is still going to result in toxicities after a while. What are you using to declorinate? Is it something that locks the ammonia? I would guess there is something in the water that is just overloading them which is causing a loss in appetite which leads to uneaten food, which leads to more toxicity....

I'd do 80% a day and see if you can't bring them around. Good luck, I know it's nerve wracking.

 

[Joby]

No, will not try and change the PH as have had 2 succesful spawns in the same water conditions.

Sorrell I do usually start turning down the temp slowly as they get past the first few weeks and prior to grow-out tank. Was just a little worried changing anything with these guys as they had started to die at 2 weeks old. Was going by the books on planning to move them to grow-out this Monday as its their 4 week birthday so didn't think space was an issue for them in the spawning tank when they started dying 2 weeks ago.

I use King British dechlorinator which does not lock ammonia and it doesn't show up on my tests so am assuming there is none there. Will up the water changes to 80% from now on.

The food does get eaten, well at least the microworms and live bbs but I had been trying some dry foods and frozen foods as a supplement to try and get them off the live which I normally start to do at around this age. They weren't too keen on them as ever so it was left uneaten, but I was taking it out and it was only a couple of times in a week.

Will move them to the grow-out as planned tomorrow and up the water changes and see if they do come round. Found one body this morning, which is a lot less than normal so fingers crossed its abating. Still have a couple looking clamped and unsteady in the water but not as bad as before.

Thanks everyone for your input, its all greatly received