From The Beginning.....

[Crazy fishes]

Ok I wish to request your help from the beginning......... SH I am sorry if I have offended you at all. Please forgive my forwardness is not meant to be difficult or aggressive at all but I am very passionate about learning full stop. Once again I am sorry. I now REALLY need to ask for your help and I will follow it unquestioningly. Ski or anyone else who feels that they can help please do so because your experience is very much appreciated as well.

I have a 24g D&D nano cube which is at present 4 weeks and 2 days old. I left the stock filter and pump in that is all the sponges, bio balls, ceramics and 2x carbon. I have also added a bag of Rowaphos, De nitrate and Purigen. I added a koralia nano to aid circulation and a 100w heater. So far is there any problems with this? After running the tank for a day with RO water. I added the salt (Red sea coral pro salt) and got to the temperature to 26C and the specific gravity to 1.024. Later that day I went to the LFS and he advised that I should added live rock now. 10.4kg of live rock and aragonite sand (NOT live) was added. It was left to cycle then for 9 days when I tested the water at the LFS and found that the NH3=0 NO2=0 NO3=10 pH=8.4. Day 10 saw the cleanup crew entering the tank to take care of the algae bloom that was well underway. 7 days later I got some fish 2 clowns (tank bred). I waited another week and got two corals; a palythoa and GSP. The palythoa has been good since I got it but the GSP has not shown any more than 4 or so polyps. It has been placed in three different locals and seems to like where it is at the moment. Water chemistry has been abit all over the place. pH keeps going low the lowest is 7.6 and my cleaner shrimp was dead in the tank this morning. However the ammonia and nitrite have remaind 0 throughout pretty much..... which is always good. It was the Kh and pH as well as the calcium and trace elements which I think are fluctuating. I have been adding carbonate buffer and calcium supplements. The latest test of chemistry was done yesterday and showed that ammonia and nitrite were 0 nitrate was 5ppm, Kh was 13, pH was 7.8-8.0, Calcium was 440ppm phosphate was 0ppm. I am clueless about how to stabilise the tank and so for the time being will not do anything.

As I said above please reply with any ideas you have and comments.

Regards

 

[@ombomb]

not do anything

Personally I think that's your best bet at the moment.

All new tanks are unstable, you need to slow down and let the tank stabilise naturally and that can only be achieved over time.

I would remove the ceramics and sponges etc from the back compartments, they'll just get clogged up and become a nitrate risk.

Just my opinion of course, good luck.

 

[steelhealr]

First off CF...I am not nor ever will be offended here, so, you don't have to post that again. My job here is to keep things running smoothly and give the best advice I can to help YOU get your tank off the ground with minimal damage, loss of life and dollars (or pounds in the UK).

I am not trying to patronize you or 'make you look bad'..but this is a good example of the instability of a nano system and why I caution everyone not to stock their tank with corals right away. I'm sorry about your dead cleaner.

First off....don't add anything else to your tank.

Second, continue to do your weekly water changes.

Does your tank have the three chamber setup like mine does? If so, a refugium will help you.

I always get confused with kilograms...1 1/2 lbs per gallon; 2.2 lbs per kilo..so, 25lbs of LR would be about what you got, right? If so, that is adequate tho' I bumped up my LR over time.

Stop adding trace elements.

Pull bioballs, sponges, ceramics. You can leave in one sponge for a week or so to help catch the loose stuff then ditch it.

Consider, for now, a 2 part calcium buffer..B-Ionic or Kent's 2 part.

As the tank starts to take off and coralline grows, it can deplete the calcium. They photosynthesize as well as do the corals which also contributes to pH swings.

Go slow.

SH

 

[Crazy fishes]

I will pull the ceramics, sponges and bioballs tomorrow; too late to be playing with the tank now the clowns are sleeping. It is the 24g D&D so it does have the three chambers. How do I create the refugium, I am interested by the sound of macroalgae? Should I leave the Rowaphos, De-nitrate and Purigen in? You say don't add anything else, so I don't need a cleaner shrimp at the moment then? I will follow your suggestions to the full stop. Hopefully no more deaths in the tank will occur. Many thanks for the reply most appreciated and you do realise that I will be posting more regularly now asking you what to do LOL . Thanks also to you @ombomb the reply most appreciated and the advice is being taken...

Kindest regards guys

 

[SkiFletch]

Yes CF, leave the Rowa, De-nitrate, and Purigen, they are good additives. I agree with SH on the removal and the refugium. Have a search through the forum for SH's journal, I believe its titled 24gallon Nanocube DX setup or something similar by SH himself, he details how he made his in there. Alternatively if you can't find it, PM him, I'm sure he knows where it is .

Secondly, do me a favor and take a picture of your water surface, host it on photobucket, and post it here. I'd really like to see what your surface agitation looks like. I know I detailed it before, but it would be nice to see what you actually have to tell if it's sufficient. It could be a component of your problem.

Most certainly though, one component is the fact that your tank is simply new. All sorts of biological and chemical processes are going on here. Organisms you can barely see are growing, blooming, and dying rapidly in your tank. As such, rates of calcification, respiration, and photosynthesis all change, even hourly. I could go through plenty of scenarios as to different processes, but in the end, the solution is the same. Waterchange, let the clowns hang out, keep them fed, stop dosing for now, and wait. I'd like you to do four other things for me while you're waiting (some of this you may have done and if so, sorry for asking again but the threads meld together after a while ):

- Mix up a sample of saltwater to your desired sg. Keep it stirring for 24 hours in a bucket with a powerhead. After which, test it for calcium, alkalinity, and pH and report back. I'd like to make sure you don't have a problem with your makeup water.

- Go to the realm of knowledge sticky atop the marine chit chat section, page 2, and click my link on a DIY verification standard for your salinity measuring device. Make up the solution and check your device to ensure you are measuring what your measuring

- Check the TDS of your RO water to make sure it in fact is upre

- Have a read through Low pH Causes and Cures by someone with a PhD in chemistry, perhaps you'll see something in there that applies to your own situation.


Hope we can help you out to have a successful tank.

 

[steelhealr]

CF..if your tank has a laminate backing, you can cut it off and it makes the EASIEST refugium..you just transilluminate thru the glass:

SH

 

[SkiFletch]

Hah, cheater!

 

[Crazy fishes]

What sort of light source is sufficient? Is the light outside the tank and shone through the back or inside the tank and shone from above the chamber?? From the picture it looks like the latter but I wish to clarify.

Regards

 

[stang1]

CF..if your tank has a laminate backing, you can cut it off and it makes the EASIEST refugium..you just transilluminate thru the glass:

SH

Hi SH,
Can you explain about the refugium please? Looks like a great idea but not sure how it works.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Crazy fishes]

SH, I left the media in, is it really essential to remove the media I will clean it once a month? I did as you said with regards the live rock; I bought 2kg more and they are covered with macroalgae (an unknown species), if you could I.D I would be very grateful. It was cured rock and my LFS is 5 minutes from where I live so that was how long in was in transit.
I measured the tank water parameters this evening, Ski and the results are as follows: temp 26C, S.G 1.025, pH 8.2, Kh = 11, NH3 = 0, NO2 = 0, NO3 = 10. I have good news with regards the GSP every day for the last couple of days it is showing more polyps!! I have ditched the red sea salt and am using seachem reef salt now. It is much nicer to work with; dissolves a lot easier! I have attached a few pictures showing the water surface ( where the ripples are is where the water is moving). I know that is obvious but just to give you an idea of where the agitation is; the clip I made I couldn't post so the still image is all you have. I also found that a single blue mushroom is also in my tank. It was on the rock with the Zoanthus and seems to like it as it is fully open.
Many thanks again guys

Regards

 

[SkiFletch]

Nice, that macroalgae is probably going to really help you keep your pH stable. That picture indcates what I would call low surface agitation. It may very well be sufficient in the longterm, but in your tank's infancy, that lower level of surface agitation may be a large portion of your problem. If it's convenient for you to increase surface agitation (just pointint a powerhead a little different), I'd go ahead and do it. Otherwise, just leave it be, things will continue to settle down over time

 

[Crazy fishes]

I have the filter pump nozzle directed towards the surface which is creating the agitation seen in the photo. I did just check the tank and have noticed that the purigen bag had fallen into the third chamber with the pump and was blocking the inlet. The flow from the pump is much more vigorous now. I like the macro and what is really good is that on the same rock is a small-ish colony of what I think are xenia. Looks identitical to GSP but is purple . I am going to do my first water change on saturday which will start the new regime but other than that it is going to be left.

How often should you measure the water parameters? What about the cleaner shrimp, should I replace him??

Many thanks and kindest regards

 

[SkiFletch]

Early on, you should be testing things frequently, perhaps twice a week. As the months go on, you'll get familiar with your system, its needs, and its health and you can start testing weekly or bi-weekly. You'll be able to recognize when your corals look "a little off" and then a quick battery of tests to figure out what's wrong, correct the problem, and they'll look fine the next day. About two years into my marine side of fishkeeping, I test once a month unless my corals give me reason to do so. Took me about a year to get comfortable with the system, but now it's much easier to predict it's needs. Experience is a great teacher, and eventually you'll get some too

 

[Crazy fishes]

Ok Ski I'll test twice weekly for the first few months or until it is stabilised. But what about the cleaner shrimp? Should I replace him? As I said I am utilising your experience and knowledge therefore do I need to replace him, is it beneficial to replace him or doesn't it matter either way?
Just a quick answer will be much appreciated.
Regards

 

[SkiFletch]

Doesn't matter either way. I personally am not a fan of cleaner shrimp since they're really voracious eaters and they can/do steal food from my corals. And since my corals are precious to me, no shrimp get in my tank