From 10 Gallon To A 37 Gallon

[Andrea12]

yes hi everyone my name is Andrea and i am new tho this site,but i have been reading tons of different post for awhile,which have given me awesome advice.I started out with a 10 gallon last april,and 21 days ago i decided to go with a 37 gallon.I had removed everything from my 10 gallon to new tank and ran it for 72 hours like fish store said. Then i empty water from 10 gallon into water in new tank wuth the fish.Its been 21 days and i have had to do dailt water changes around 25%,and adding aqua plus conditioner to water before tank,stress zyme,nutrafin cycle,aqurium salt.I had topfin filter but it seemed like my filter would gunk up after 2 days,was was really stinky,so i went out and bought aquaclear 50,love it but because it had no bacteria in it i think that is why my tank went cloudy,but sure.I replaced carbon in filter with zeo-carb as i was having high nitrite,ammonia level,but i did water changes once a day and that would help.My fish seem happy they were at top tank last night,checked levels and they were okay,i have filter going,2 decorations that produce bubbles and 10 live plants,but was worried they still was lacking oxygen,so i put a bubble tube in back and they instantly came a live and wa sswimming through it,they were happy.My tank is clear today and my reading are ph:8.0 nitrite 0.1 nitrate 5. ammonia 0

kh 240 gh 0.Temp.79.I still dont know if these are good levels,or if my tank is still cycling,i test my water with nutrafin liquid testers,and strips too,i get worried so i test my water 5x day,i love my fish.If anyone could help me out to let me know if im on right track,and if my levels are ok,not ok that would be wonderful.I know i have overstock in my tank,as i had taken my friends fish because her tank cracked a leak so she needed to get the fish into something,so i offered.Thank you.

 

[Rynofasho]

If you completely ditched your old filter, you're going to experience another cycle as most of the bacteria is found in the filter media. Have you thrown away the old filter yet? If not, grab your biomedia out of the old filter and go get a mesh bag from the LFS and just hang it in there - no, it isn't pretty, but it will at least keep your established bacteria in the tank.

Keep up the 25% water changes, get this test kit (Im guessing you have strips since you included kh and gh) as they are most accurate, and keep a close eye on your stats. You more than likely will have to keep up with these water changes daily until you are cycled.

Also, just so you know, the charcoal filter isn't really necessary. It works well for water clarity and to take out meds, but it isn't an everyday necessity. It does not remove ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate from the water. I upgraded a junky filter to an AC50 like you and I replaced the charcoal media with another bag of the biomedia. It seems to make the cycle move a bit faster although that is just an observation, nothing scientific.

I recommend Seachem Prime as a water treatment -- it is a dechlorinator, and it also detoxifies ammonia and nitrite.

 

[Andrea12]

Hi,thanks for info.I knew i should have kept old filter but i listened to lady petstore and got rid of it.So does my reading level show im starting over?I test with the strips during day and in morning evening i test with all the drops,i know i probably test to much a day but i see have fast the tank levels can rise.I will continue water changes.Thanks

 

[Jenste]

unfortunately yes you are starting back at the beginning. Also, test strips are very inaccurate - best bet is a liquid test kit.



another thing - - if after you do a waterchange, you get ANY ammonia or nitrIte readings, it means you should do another water change.

 

[Andrea12]

Well here we go again,thanks glad i have this sight and others help.I do use the liquid too!So seriosly its starting right from the beginning?That really makes me mad that the pet stores give you wrong answers.

 

[Jenste]

I am sorry that your hard work must now be repeated - - fish stores are in it for one thing - -profit.

you set up a tank, grow attached to the fish, they die, you go and buy new fish, fish stores sells you heaps of product - -don't buy anything that says it will instantly cycle the tank, or chemically adjust pH.

also, most people working there are making minimum wage and have little to no experience caring for tanks and are just reciting what they have been trained to tell the customer

 

[Andrea12]

isn't that so true,well all my levels are good right now so i guess i will take advantage of that till the spikes start again in tank and then it will be back to panicking,worring wether u get the levels down soon enough,its acually tiring cycling a tank,but so worth it.I do love my fish!!Thanks again

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Andrea and Welcome to our freshwater beginners section!

(Andrea, I started this yesterday but didn't have time to finish it, so the members may have covered some of this by now...)

Good advice up there from Jenste and Rynofasho. It does sound like you are at the beginning of another Fish-In Cycling situation and may have a while to go yet. How many days since you started using the new filter and new media?

You should continue to use your good Nutrafin liquid-reagent based test kit (I assume it's a full kit with ammonia, nitrite(NO2), pH and nitrate(NO3) tests?) I'd probably just throw out the paper strips as they are worse than bad, they are misleading (or you could put them on the shelf for extreme emergencies if you don't like throwing things away that you paid money for!) Your liquid test kit will be an important learning tool now that you've found a good hobbyist forum!

You'll need to stop using the salt. That can be damaging to freshwater fish and is really only used on rare occasions to assist in treating white spot disease. There are a few semi-brackish mollies and others that use a little salt but this is not for your average community tank (the members can check what you have.)

You'll need to spell out exactly for the members all the things you are putting in your tank. Now that you have a good forum, try to not take advice at the store, at least without taking the time to double check it. We've all learned to do that.

The goal in a fish-in cycle is to figure out the percentage and frequency of water changes that keeps the ammonia and nitrite(NO2) at or below 0.25ppm or 0.30ppm (isn't 0.30 a mark on the Nutrafin test?) until you can be home again to retest and potentially change water again. Eventually you will be able to go a week without water changes but not seeing any traces of either of these poisons but if the fish-in cycle has been less than 3 weeks or a month then you have to be suspicious that your little spikes may just have not shown up yet, it's that slow!

Your new live plants may need a little nourishment in a new tank. Often there are some nitrates and phosphorus getting to them from the fishfood and fishwaste but many other of the 17 things they need (potassium, carbon, iron, to name a few) may not be present in high enough traces. You'll want to discuss the light wattage and I'd start with not more than 8 hours of light per day, but what works for people varies a lot. Many members can help with beginning plant lore.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Andrea12]

Hi waterdrop thank you for all your advice,i am so glad that i found this forum,i dont feel alone anymore,and i have already got great advice.I use the liquid drop test kit twice a day,i have had the tank running for 22 days with many high spikes and daily water changes to get them down,i decided to get a better filter as i know im over stocked i changed it over 4 days ago,had a big spike again nexy day did water change and its been good since.Now i tested today and my levels are ammonia 0.6 nitrate 0 nitrite 0 ph 8.0.I never knew that about the salt i was told different once again,i will definitly stop using it.Thanks
I have nutrafin plant gro but i dont know if i should use it.Here is my list of what fish i have,i know i have to many,but i top of the fish i had,i ended up taking my girlfriends fish as her tank started leaking.
9 different molly's
7 neons
3 small danio
5 different tetra
3 puffer molly 1 is pregnant
3 little frogs
1 farlowella
2 shrimp
2 golden dojo loaches Thank you

 

[Andrea12]

hey everyone well Im panicking now,i did a gravel clean with water change yesterday my nitrite,nitrate were almost 0 few days but my ammonia was a little up.Today i have done 2nd water test and my reading are nitrate 5
nitrite almost 0.3
ammonia close to 2.4
ph 8.0
I don't know what i should do,should i do another water change even though i did one yesterday.If anyone could please give any suggestions that would be wonderful. Thank you

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Andrea, I'm sorry I missed your thread the last couple days, I had to do some work on my own tanks and got distracted.

I'm sorry we didn't communicate the urgency of being in a new Fish-In Cycling Situation. By now I think you've realized that. You are only 4 days in to a new Fish-In Cycle (the only thing that cycles is the filter media, so when you put a new filter in and didn't save the old media, everything started over from scratch.)

Unfortunately, a normal planned fish-in cycle is done with only a small fraction of the capacity of the tank (for example, maybe 6 to 10 inches of fish for a 37 US gallon tank) and you have possibly over 40 inches of fish in the tank currently (very roughly.)

This probably calls for multiple very large water changes per day, but you can use your test kit to try and figure out if you can get by with less. It's an exhausting problem and often a better solution is to rehome some of the fish (to a store if you can talk them into it or by listing them as free on craigslist or some other web site.) While you still have them I'll repeat the process: You have to be a detective and write everything down. Your goal is to figure out a pattern of percentage of water changed and/or frequency of changes that gets both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) down below 0.25ppm (hopefully zero in some cases) but then does not get back up above 0.25ppm before you can be home again to change water again. Most people start with testing and water changing 12 hours apart (so morning and evening but of course it depends heavily on your schedule. The water changes need to be with a gravel cleaner because some of the things you want to remove are invisible but hang out in the gravel. The return water must be conditioned and roughly temperature matched (your hand is good enough for this.)

For a 37G you're going to want to use a hose system, as buckets would drive you crazy. A long hose system such as a Python allow you to drain directly to the garden or tub (use a catchbucket so you'll have tank water later to match temperature with.) Then prior to reversing the hose and shooting faucet water directly in to the tank you need to dose conditioner in an amount for the entire volume of the tank (most of us use Seachem Prime for this because it is so concentrated. Dose at 1.5x to 2x what it says but not more than 2x.) In an overstocked case like yours the problem is not going to be getting it down close to zero on the changes, but that it may suddenly shoot up above 0.25ppm ammonia or nitrite in a very short period because of all the fish waste and their respiration (fish give off ammonia directly from their gills during respiration.) It's probably going to be more than a month of this, unless we can find someone who can post or give you some mature filter media.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Andrea12]

Hi Andrea, I'm sorry I missed your thread the last couple days, I had to do some work on my own tanks and got distracted.

I'm sorry we didn't communicate the urgency of being in a new Fish-In Cycling Situation. By now I think you've realized that. You are only 4 days in to a new Fish-In Cycle (the only thing that cycles is the filter media, so when you put a new filter in and didn't save the old media, everything started over from scratch.)

Unfortunately, a normal planned fish-in cycle is done with only a small fraction of the capacity of the tank (for example, maybe 6 to 10 inches of fish for a 37 US gallon tank) and you have possibly over 40 inches of fish in the tank currently (very roughly.)

This probably calls for multiple very large water changes per day, but you can use your test kit to try and figure out if you can get by with less. It's an exhausting problem and often a better solution is to rehome some of the fish (to a store if you can talk them into it or by listing them as free on craigslist or some other web site.) While you still have them I'll repeat the process: You have to be a detective and write everything down. Your goal is to figure out a pattern of percentage of water changed and/or frequency of changes that gets both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) down below 0.25ppm (hopefully zero in some cases) but then does not get back up above 0.25ppm before you can be home again to change water again. Most people start with testing and water changing 12 hours apart (so morning and evening but of course it depends heavily on your schedule. The water changes need to be with a gravel cleaner because some of the things you want to remove are invisible but hang out in the gravel. The return water must be conditioned and roughly temperature matched (your hand is good enough for this.)

For a 37G you're going to want to use a hose system, as buckets would drive you crazy. A long hose system such as a Python allow you to drain directly to the garden or tub (use a catchbucket so you'll have tank water later to match temperature with.) Then prior to reversing the hose and shooting faucet water directly in to the tank you need to dose conditioner in an amount for the entire volume of the tank (most of us use Seachem Prime for this because it is so concentrated. Dose at 1.5x to 2x what it says but not more than 2x.) In an overstocked case like yours the problem is not going to be getting it down close to zero on the changes, but that it may suddenly shoot up above 0.25ppm ammonia or nitrite in a very short period because of all the fish waste and their respiration (fish give off ammonia directly from their gills during respiration.) It's probably going to be more than a month of this, unless we can find someone who can post or give you some mature filter media.

~~waterdrop~~

hey,well its hard for me to go with number 0.25ppm because all my liquid test are for nitrate either 5,10,20,50,110 and nitrite is read 0.1 ,0.3 ,0.8 ,1.6 ,3.3 and ammonia reads 0, 0.6, 1.2, 2.4, 4.9, 7.3 so i just go by what they read and holy i did gravel clean,and another water change in same day just to get the ammonia below 0.6 andnitrite under 0.3, nitrate is usually at 5.I know im probably confusing you with all these numbers but i dont know if any of these numbers are close to 0.25ppm.You make complete sense and are so right.in am today ammonia was good but the nitrite,nitrate were higher again so did water change,came home in afternoon and i know its rising again,im so tired.lol

 

[Rynofasho]

Yep, it really is a lot of work and stress doing a fish in cycle. I did the same thing before I found the forum, and thus I was performing 30% water changes daily and freaking out at any and every perceived sign of stress from my fish.

It does get better though, and you do get cycled. If you have the spare coin and care to, try out that API freshwater master kit. Honestly, at concentrations over 0.5ppm, ammonia is already pretty toxic to fish, so not knowing anything until 0.6ppm is somewhat self defeating.

If you'd rather stick it out with the kit you have, then I would continue daily 25% (at LEAST) water changes, and if you haven't picked up Seachem Prime, do yourself and your fish a favor and get it. Probably the single best piece of insurance you can have for your tank in my opinion, and it is so concentrated that your money goes a long way. As an example, I got a 250ml bottle that I used daily for a long time for my water changes, and now I treat 4 tanks with it (although it's really only about 40 gallons of water) and I still probably have 1/4th of the bottle left (purchased in early October).

So ya, getchu some Prime (read: insurance), be diligent with your water changes, make sure you have plenty of biomedia in your filter, and go to town. Considering your bioload, I would imagine your tank will cycle relatively quickly.

 

[Andrea12]

Hey there well i have tested water and since last night my ammonia has been at 0 but nitrite has been sitting at 0.3 since water change yesterday so what does that mean?Thanks

 

[waterdrop]

You don't need to be worrying about nitrate(NO3) during all this water changing. Your only concern is ammonia and nitrite(NO2) and you can use the kits you have (liquid, right?) and just aim for something lighter than the 0.6 (=0.60) concentration and the 0.30 indication in your kit is the same thing as the 0.25 I was quoting.

So, like last night, there will be times when your water changes manage to get ammonia down to zero and keep it there for a bit. That's good. But nitrite(NO2), as you're seeing, is harder. It will probably be the poison that continues to give you the most trouble for the greatest time period. The reason is that a lot more of it gets created.

For each 1ppm that the ammonia processing bacteria convert, 2.7ppm of nitrite(NO2) is passed on to the nitrite processing bacteria. So much bigger colonies of nitrite processors (we call them N-Bacs for short) must grow in the biomedia before all this gets processed.

Keep up the good work. You've obviously got the right idea now. You will never forget the lesson of the biofilter after something like this.

~~watedrop~~