Flicking After Water Changes

[Miss Wiggle]

noticed on a few occasions now that just after a water change some fish will start flicking..... so obviously i work myself up into a blind panic about ich, decide to keep an eye on the tank for a day or so, and within a few hrs they've stopped flicking

had it again with my community tank last night, i had a death in it last week, a little apisto I just couldn't get to eat properly, so obviously i was concerned maybe something was wrong. Did some water tests and everything's spot on, the tank is a little overstocked but not massivley so and it's very well filtered so not really any reason for disease.

anyone else had this? why is it and is it anything to be concerned about?

 

[basia]

I've had this. I have read somewhere that it can be due to chloramines in the water. Some of the dechlorinators do not have the specific chemical to remove them and the filter will turn the chloramines into small amount of amonia which irritates the fish. I changed to Tetra Aquasafe and have not had any problems since.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I've had this. I have read somewhere that it can be due to chloramines in the water. Some of the dechlorinators do not have the specific chemical to remove them and the filter will turn the chloramines into small amount of amonia which irritates the fish. I changed to Tetra Aquasafe and have not had any problems since.

hmmm interesting, we use the API tap water conditioner, or stress coat

 

[basia]

I used to use stresscoat.

 

[Vicky99]

I used to get this. I thought it was because my tap water was high in Nitrates - got some Tetra Nitrate Minus and it seems to have stopped. Interestingly though it was about the same time as I switched to using Tetra Aquasafe - maybe it wasn't the nitrates after all (or perhaps it was a combination).

 

[Callum]

i use the API stuff but my water company uses chlorine. so my fish never flicker except when i switch the lights on due to a faulty starter

 

[Cian McLiam]

How often do you change water? If you have low pH water in your taps and use carbon and a lot of aeration in the tank, the tank water could be quite a bit higher, or conversely, if you dont do water changes fairly regularly then the pH of your tank can drop. Either way the fish might be reacting to a sudden change of pH or another factor in the tap water as above. If it calms down after a few hours its probably nothing too serious but you could test the tap water vs the tank water for phosphates, nitrates etc.

 

[Adam86]

noticed on a few occasions now that just after a water change some fish will start flicking..... so obviously i work myself up into a blind panic about ich, decide to keep an eye on the tank for a day or so, and within a few hrs they've stopped flicking

had it again with my community tank last night, i had a death in it last week, a little apisto I just couldn't get to eat properly, so obviously i was concerned maybe something was wrong. Did some water tests and everything's spot on, the tank is a little overstocked but not massivley so and it's very well filtered so not really any reason for disease.

anyone else had this? why is it and is it anything to be concerned about?

Your fish could have Ick. Ick is as commen on fish as ticks are on dogs ( you just cant see them.) When your fish bumps up against stuff it is that they are trying to get relief from the Ick eating on them. I am not posative about this but it sounds like that is your problem. You can raise your temp up to 83 degrees F and Ick cant live at that level of heat. So I suggest raising your temp and putting in some salt to calm your fish down. DO NOT USE ICK GAURD!!! Or anything like it.

 

[xJake]

It's because when you change the water whether you want to or not you stir up debris into the water. This debris can get caught in the gills and on the skin of fish and irritate them. It happens all the time with my fish after I do a gravel vaccum. I've tried all sorts of different dechlorinators and they still start flicking/rubbing every time. Also, my city uses chlorine, so it couldn't be the chloramine. The debris is harmless but the fish don't like it. It's a lot like dust in the air of our homes; it's harmless but can cause some irritation.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I used to get this. I thought it was because my tap water was high in Nitrates - got some Tetra Nitrate Minus and it seems to have stopped. Interestingly though it was about the same time as I switched to using Tetra Aquasafe - maybe it wasn't the nitrates after all (or perhaps it was a combination).

Yeah we've tested the nitrates of that tank and the tap water before, there's no issue there.

How often do you change water? If you have low pH water in your taps and use carbon and a lot of aeration in the tank, the tank water could be quite a bit higher, or conversely, if you dont do water changes fairly regularly then the pH of your tank can drop. Either way the fish might be reacting to a sudden change of pH or another factor in the tap water as above. If it calms down after a few hours its probably nothing too serious but you could test the tap water vs the tank water for phosphates, nitrates etc.

weekly, ph comes out of the tap at 7.4ish..... tank's are all (except the SW and Ian's planted tank) sitting at 7.4.... so no ph change.

we've done various tests on the tap water in the past and neve turned up anything to worry about.

noticed on a few occasions now that just after a water change some fish will start flicking..... so obviously i work myself up into a blind panic about ich, decide to keep an eye on the tank for a day or so, and within a few hrs they've stopped flicking

had it again with my community tank last night, i had a death in it last week, a little apisto I just couldn't get to eat properly, so obviously i was concerned maybe something was wrong. Did some water tests and everything's spot on, the tank is a little overstocked but not massivley so and it's very well filtered so not really any reason for disease.

anyone else had this? why is it and is it anything to be concerned about?

Your fish could have Ick. Ick is as commen on fish as ticks are on dogs ( you just cant see them.) When your fish bumps up against stuff it is that they are trying to get relief from the Ick eating on them. I am not posative about this but it sounds like that is your problem. You can raise your temp up to 83 degrees F and Ick cant live at that level of heat. So I suggest raising your temp and putting in some salt to calm your fish down. DO NOT USE ICK GAURD!!! Or anything like it.

yeah I know how to treat ick thanks, it's not that, if it was they'd continue flicking and rubbing and eventually develop white spots then die (if left untreated). They don't..... they just flick for maybe an hr or so after water changes, then are back to perfect health. Also indescriminatley advising to add salt is not a v good idea, I have cories and a plec who would be killed if I did, if I didn't know that and had followed your advise some cories that cost me £20 each and a £40 plec would now be very very poorly you could have just cost me well over £100 with bad advise, maybe you should do a little more research before you post.

It's because when you change the water whether you want to or not you stir up debris into the water. This debris can get caught in the gills and on the skin of fish and irritate them. It happens all the time with my fish after I do a gravel vaccum. I've tried all sorts of different dechlorinators and they still start flicking/rubbing every time. Also, my city uses chlorine, so it couldn't be the chloramine. The debris is harmless but the fish don't like it. It's a lot like dust in the air of our homes; it's harmless but can cause some irritation.

hmmmm that's kind of what I thought. It doesn't seem to be doing them any real harm. I also re-arranged the tank a bit at the same time as this water change so that's probably stirred up more crud than usual. They're all fine today anyway so nowt to be concerned about.

 

[Inchworm]

I've had this problem too, at least for a while last summer, and the owner of my lfs told me that some of his other customers had it too. We thought it must have been something about our local water. Now I think it's the API because shortly after I stopped using it, the problem stopped. My water is treated with chlorine, not chloramine.

When Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. changed the packaging on it's Tap Water Conditioner from the old yellow and red to their new blue and white, they changed the instructions for its use too. Their 16 oz (473 ml) bottle used to treat up to 7,568 gallons (29,072 L) of water. Their new bottle, of the same size, says it treats up to 9,460 US gallons. It does not list the ingredients, but clearly something about their formula has changed.

At the same time, they changed the instructions for use. They used to suggest using one drop per gallon (1/4 tsp. per 20 gallons) to remove chlorine or 3 drops per gallon (3/4 tsp. per 20 gallons) to remove chloramine. Now they give the instructions only in ml. per 20 gallons of water. The bottle has a lid that could be used for measuring, but it's not much help in treating smaller tanks.

I used the old product for a long time with no problem, but since it's been changed and I had the flicking problem, I no longer use it. I found a not so lfs that has certain medicines and other products packaged under its own label. Now I buy their brand of chlorine remover (straight sodium thiosulfate) and use the old, and very versatile measurement of one drop per gallon.

My fish have stopped flicking after their water changes.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I've had this problem too, at least for a while last summer and the owner of my lfs told me that some of his other customers had it too. We thought it must have been something about our local water. Now I think it's the API because shortly after I stopped using it, the problem stopped. My water is treated with chlorine, not chloramine.

When Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. changed the packaging on it's Tap Water Conditioner from the old yellow and red to their new blue and white, they changed the instructions for its use too. Their 16 oz (473 ml) bottle used to treat up to 7,568 gallons (29,072 L) of water. Their new bottle, of the same size, says it treats up to 9,460 US gallons. It does not list the ingredients, but clearly something about their formula has changed.

At the same time, they changed the instructions for use. They used to suggest using one drop per gallon (1/4 tsp. per 20 gallons) to remove chlorine or 3 drops per gallon (3/4 tsp. per 20 gallons) to remove chloramine. Now they give the instructions only in ml. per 20 gallons of water. The bottle has a lid that could be used for measuring, but it's not much help in treating smaller tanks.

I used the old product for a long time with no problem, but since it's been changed and I had the flicking problem, I no longer use it. I found a not so lfs that has certain medicines and other products packaged under its own label. Now I buy their brand of chlorine remover (straight sodium thiosulfate) and use the old, and very versatile measurement of one drop per gallon.

My fish have stopped flicking after their water changes.

hmmm interesting, it's certainly food for thought. I've some other de-chlorinator's lying around, and one of our bottles of API has nearly run out. I might do a little test with some other dechlor's see what happens.

 

[andywg]

I would say it hsa nothing to do with it being chloramine rather than chlorine, as the almost ubiquitous chemical in de-chlorinators for dealing with chlorine (sodium thiosulphate) will break the chloramine bond with the ammonia and neutralise the chlorine. The only difference is a very small rise in ammonia, which a standard filter will easily cope with.

I would be surprised if it is chlorine related as all. The (admittedly non-scientific) tests I have seen show that a mature tank does not need de-chlorinator at all, even if the tap water has 5ppm. They even indicate it is not necessary if the tap water is treated with chloramines.

Sadly the tests were conducted by members of another forum, so I cannot link to them here. After a number of months, both tanks are fine.

It could be something else in the de-chlorinator. Inchworm says she had trouble when it changed, maybe another ingredient was added. Most water conditioners that claim to aid the slime coat do it by agitating the fishes skin into producing a heavier coat.

Which fish are flicking? Is it possible the fresh water is inducing a behavioural change akin to breeding?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I would say it hsa nothing to do with it being chloramine rather than chlorine, as the almost ubiquitous chemical in de-chlorinators for dealing with chlorine (sodium thiosulphate) will break the chloramine bond with the ammonia and neutralise the chlorine. The only difference is a very small rise in ammonia, which a standard filter will easily cope with.

I would be surprised if it is chlorine related as all. The (admittedly non-scientific) tests I have seen show that a mature tank does not need de-chlorinator at all, even if the tap water has 5ppm. They even indicate it is not necessary if the tap water is treated with chloramines.

Sadly the tests were conducted by members of another forum, so I cannot link to them here. After a number of months, both tanks are fine.

It could be something else in the de-chlorinator. Inchworm says she had trouble when it changed, maybe another ingredient was added. Most water conditioners that claim to aid the slime coat do it by agitating the fishes skin into producing a heavier coat.

Which fish are flicking? Is it possible the fresh water is inducing a behavioural change akin to breeding?

hmmm hmmm and hmmm again, god I wish I understood more science sometimes!!

the fish in question this time were long-fin leopard danio's, rasbora beaforti and harlequin rasbora. I have noticed it with other fish in the past but couldn't say specifically which ones it was.

 

[MHunt]

I did read an article in PFK about a fish breeder that didn't use any chemicals in his tanks, because he didn't want his fish swimming in a chemical soup.

I guess the only reason for using the water conditioners is to remove the chlorine etc so it doesn't kill the bacteria colony. Cycling the tank the first time is bad enough without going through it every week!!!!!!! But if what you say andy that water can be changed without using conditioners, then that's maybe something that should be looked at.

I do notice my fish itch from time to time, particularly my apistos and guppies. I can't say if it is around the same time as my water changes though. I use the interpet tap safe, and haven't noticed any problems at all.

But fish can be like humans, somtimes you just gotta scratch!