Fish with clamped fins, droopy tail, flashing

[cjag]

Tank size: 40G breeder
tank age: Finished cycling 10/20, fish added on 10/25
pH: 8.0
Using API master test kit:
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 5ppm
tank temp: 82F

Tank inhabitants: 9 Juvenile Neolamprologus similis, 5 juvenile Altolamprologus compressiceps dwarf sumbu shell.

All of my fish have been going through a treatment with Ich-X since friday 11/6. The Ich was noticed on 11/2 and I tried treating with high temperatures and salt until the medication arrived. During this time I also did daily 10% WC and gravel vac. Also, when I bumped the heat up I did so slowly, and added more aeration to the tank. I did this by dropping the water level to let the outflow splash and I angled a powerhead upwards to break the surface.

There was not any improvement until I started treating with Ich X. Having a 40G tank, 20mL Ich X is being administered every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each dose. After one dose of Ich X all visible white spots were gone, but half of the N. similis were sitting on the tank bottom gasping for air. I did a 50% WC at that point and the fish were not gasping the next day. However, those same fish started exhibiting the following behaviors which were not present before medication or while they physically had spots on them.

5/9 of my N.similis shell dwellers are acting very lethargic and spend their time resting on their shells or on the substrate. They rest with their tail end towards the ground and have clamped fins. When they swim fast or have a territorial skirmish, they flare their fins and can swim around normally and horizontal, but as soon as they stop swimming or swim slower their tail end droops down. Sometimes, these affected fish also seem to swim in place very quickly, kind of shimmying, which is then followed by a freakout where they flash against their shells repeatedly. Everyone is eating normally. The A. comps have completely normal behavior.

Here are a few images of the behavior. They will lean against their shells like this or scoot around in this position. Not normal from what I have seen from them. They are usually very active and hover a few inches above their territories.

Could the medication be hurting them? Or is this the Ich still being around? Or something else entirely? Thank you to anyone who is able to provide some insight.

 

[Colin_T]

There was not any improvement until I started treating with Ich X. Having a 40G tank, 20mL Ich X is being administered every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each dose. After one dose of Ich X all visible white spots were gone, but half of the N. similis were sitting on the tank bottom gasping for air. I did a 50% WC at that point and the fish were not gasping the next day. However, those same fish started exhibiting the following behaviors which were not present before medication or while they physically had spots on them.

You are overdosing them or they have massive scar tissue on their gills from the white spot parasites.

The medications don't cause the white spots on the fish to fall off. The parasites naturally drop off the fish after feeding on them for a few days. The parasites then divide inside their cyst that is sitting on the substrate, and a few days later they hatch and thousands of new parasites appear in the tank. These new parasites have 24-48 hours to find a fish to attach to or they die. You can only kill the parasites when they are in this free swimming stage looking for a new host.

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When you do water changes before raising the temperature for white spot treatment, you do a huge water change (80-90%) and a complete gravel clean. This dilutes the number of disease organisms in the tank and gives the heat time to work.

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Before you treat the tank, do the following things.
To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these so you get a more accurate water volume.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the bottom of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

 

[cjag]

You are overdosing them or they have massive scar tissue on their gills from the white spot parasites.

The medications don't cause the white spots on the fish to fall off. The parasites naturally drop off the fish after feeding on them for a few days. The parasites then divide inside their cyst that is sitting on the substrate, and a few days later they hatch and thousands of new parasites appear in the tank. These new parasites have 24-48 hours to find a fish to attach to or they die. You can only kill the parasites when they are in this free swimming stage looking for a new host.

--------------------------
When you do water changes before raising the temperature for white spot treatment, you do a huge water change (80-90%) and a complete gravel clean. This dilutes the number of disease organisms in the tank and gives the heat time to work.

--------------------------
Before you treat the tank, do the following things.
To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these so you get a more accurate water volume.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the bottom of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

I appreciate the thorough reply. So you think there still being ich present can explain their behavior? Including the weird tail drooping?