Fish Tank Recipes?

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

...And no, I'm NOT talking about garlic butter with snails, or a nice parsely soss to go with that awkward Oscar!

I'm talking about recipes of fish to use as a guide when stocking an aquarium. I've read countless queries about what fish to buy and I thought that at least I would find such a facility useful, even though I am far from being a Newbie.

I'm now an amateur gardener and some of the most useful on-line resources have been those that give 'recipes' of plants to stick in various types of bed.
So, you specify a shady bed, for example and say what size it is and the 'recipe' then suggests 5 Plant A, 3 Plant B, 3 Plant C and half a dozen Pant D. (There's usually a planting plan provided, to show you were to put stuff).

So for a fish tank, I'd state the size of the tank, the current water parameters and maybe the filtration and lighting used.
It would probably be useful to say something about the planting and what I'd be hoping for, in terms of community or limited species, or geographical theme.

For example (and using my current set-up of a tank that I've only just started to cycle, and so is probably currently unready for livestock);

Tank Size (l x w x h): 30x12x15 inches.
Available water depth: 13 inches.
Tank Type (fresh water tropical, marine tropical, freshwater cold, etc.): Fresh Water tropical.
Planted: Yes, extensively.
Substrate: Rounded river gravel, with a seperated aquarium sand 'beach'.
Filtration/Aeration: Juwel Ecoflow 1000/Eheim 400
Temp.: 27C
pH: 7.5
GH: 120
NO3: 20
NO2: 0.5
KH: 40
Ammonia: 1.0

I'm looking for a community tank, with a South American theme. Ideally, I'd like some Corys, one or two small shoals of something like tetras and one or two 'specimen' fish, such as Rams. Also open to a 'clean-up' crew of perhaps Ottos, etc..

Contributors might then tell me that I could only have 6 Neons, 6 Pygmy Corydoras and 1 nerite snail.

What say you. Is the idea valid? Could it work?

 

[ThatFishGirl6231]

i personally love garlic on nerite snails. especially with sea salt

 

[Uberhoust]

I like the idea. I think it could work. As this would mostly appeal to novices it might be good if one starts with the type of water is most easily available to the cook. Ie soft acid, hard basic, neutral. Later adding what to do for things like soft basic water (some cities add pH adjustments to drive the pH high to prevent the water from leaching heavy metals).

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I like the idea. I think it could work. As this would mostly appeal to novices it might be good if one starts with the type of water is most easily available to the cook. Ie soft acid, hard basic, neutral. Later adding what to do for things like soft basic water (some cities add pH adjustments to drive the pH high to prevent the water from leaching heavy metals).

Although what novice would know about 'soft acid', 'hard basic', etc.? My thought was to begin with what the person had to start with and then see what fish they could put in it. As the recipes accumulated for different tanks, then people could adjust their set-ups to change their fish 'recipes'.

 

[NannaLou]

...And no, I'm NOT talking about garlic butter with snails, or a nice parsely soss to go with that awkward Oscar!

I'm talking about recipes of fish to use as a guide when stocking an aquarium. I've read countless queries about what fish to buy and I thought that at least I would find such a facility useful, even though I am far from being a Newbie.

I'm now an amateur gardener and some of the most useful on-line resources have been those that give 'recipes' of plants to stick in various types of bed.
So, you specify a shady bed, for example and say what size it is and the 'recipe' then suggests 5 Plant A, 3 Plant B, 3 Plant C and half a dozen Pant D. (There's usually a planting plan provided, to show you were to put stuff).

So for a fish tank, I'd state the size of the tank, the current water parameters and maybe the filtration and lighting used.
It would probably be useful to say something about the planting and what I'd be hoping for, in terms of community or limited species, or geographical theme.

For example (and using my current set-up of a tank that I've only just started to cycle, and so is probably currently unready for livestock);

Tank Size (l x w x h): 30x12x15 inches.
Available water depth: 13 inches.
Tank Type (fresh water tropical, marine tropical, freshwater cold, etc.): Fresh Water tropical.
Planted: Yes, extensively.
Substrate: Rounded river gravel, with a seperated aquarium sand 'beach'.
Filtration/Aeration: Juwel Ecoflow 1000/Eheim 400
Temp.: 27C
pH: 7.5
GH: 120
NO3: 20
NO2: 0.5
KH: 40
Ammonia: 1.0

I'm looking for a community tank, with a South American theme. Ideally, I'd like some Corys, one or two small shoals of something like tetras and one or two 'specimen' fish, such as Rams. Also open to a 'clean-up' crew of perhaps Ottos, etc..

Contributors might then tell me that I could only have 6 Neons, 6 Pygmy Corydoras and 1 nerite snail.

What say you. Is the idea valid? Could it work?

It sounds like a good idea, but in reality I think you’d have to make a different recipe for just about everyone, there are so many variables….
In a garden there’s fewer..? (shade, full sun, partial sun, chalk/clay soil…)

 

[ClownLurch]

I’ve been looking into this myself recently. The idea couldn’t handle too many “parameters” imho.

 

[Avel1896]

So for a fish tank, I'd state the size of the tank, the current water parameters and maybe the filtration and lighting used.

Actually, it is all (well, 97%) about fishes requirements !
Your tank is 86 litre and 75 cm long.
You'll have to wait 4-5 weeks for nitrogen cycle to be done.
Considering current parameters (pH: 7.5 - GH: 120 - KH: 40) and desired fishes (Neons, Pygmy Corydoras, Otos) parameters are good if expressed in PPM, except for pH that is little too high, for now.

Otos need an 6 months established tank like evry sucker fish.

Tank is more or less divided in 3 areas : surface, middle, bottom. Some fishes are surface dwellers, others (mostly schooling/shoaling fishes are middle dwellers, others bottom dwellers, and some "anywhere" dwellers.
Idea is to respect these areas regarding choice of fishes, it is at least as important as parameters, hygiene and maintenance. Not forgetting : filter and medias, regular water-changes, etc...

Theoretically speaking, you might get something like this :

 

[Naughts]

Fish are far more complex than plants. Two species could have matching parameters (temp, GH, pH and KH) but require different water flow, differing substrate, too active/too sedate, too nervous, out-compete each other for food, be too territorial or even outright kill each other....and so on. As @NannaLou said, there are too many variables.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Fish are far more complex than plants. Two species could have matching parameters (temp, GH, pH and KH) but require different water flow, differing substrate, too active/too sedate, too nervous, out-compete each other for food, be too territorial or even outright kill each other....and so on. As @NannaLou said, there are too many variables.

Plants are surprisingly complex, with differing flowering times for example. Most of the decent planting plans and border 'recipes' take this into account, so that a bed is attractive throughout the year, come winter, come summer. Tanks tend to be fairly static, throughout the year.

I never thought it'd be easy, but time and time again, I see people asking the same question;
"What can I put in my tank?"

Any detailed tank-parameter given could result in a variety of possible stocking solutions, with some favouring a single-species option and others suggesting slight changes in pH, for example, as a means to facilitate more variety.
Normally, someone might say that they want half a dozen Chain Loach, a pair of Dwarf Gourami and a small shoal of 8 Harlequin in their 20 gallon tank. The response from the respective Forum/Group members might challenge the numbers and then make possibly more suitable alternatives.

Taking my given example as a starting point, (although assuming zero ammonia and a proper maintenance regime), what fish could be accommodated?

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Actually, it is all (well, 97%) about fishes requirements !
Your tank is 86 litre and 75 cm long.
You'll have to wait 4-5 weeks for nitrogen cycle to be done.
Considering current parameters (pH: 7.5 - GH: 120 - KH: 40) and desired fishes (Neons, Pygmy Corydoras, Otos) parameters are good if expressed in PPM, except for pH that is little too high, for now.

Otos need an 6 months established tank like evry sucker fish.

Tank is more or less divided in 3 areas : surface, middle, bottom. Some fishes are surface dwellers, others (mostly schooling/shoaling fishes are middle dwellers, others bottom dwellers, and some "anywhere" dwellers.
Idea is to respect these areas regarding choice of fishes, it is at least as important as parameters, hygiene and maintenance. Not forgetting : filter and medias, regular water-changes, etc...

Theoretically speaking, you might get something like this :

View attachment 139312

This is a great response and something along the lines of what I was thinking of.
For someone setting out, knowing that a 4-5 week wait is required makes the process much more acceptable/easy to bear, knowing that the tank could house all of those fish!
Given that the tank might house that many C. habrosus, the same number of C. pygmaeus could take less space, providing the flexibility to add more tetra, for example.
Again, if one was happy to reduce the tetra and hatchet shoals, then perhaps something like a ram or two could be added?

No recipe would be viewed as set in stone, but could provide a useful starting point.
If I was a complete Newbie, I'd find such a resource most useful and could avoid taking the poor advice of certain shop staff, with the resultant mortalities.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I’ve been looking into this myself recently. The idea couldn’t handle too many “parameters” imho.

Fair point and those parameters could possibly be simplified.
So, for example, an 'Acid Tank' could be for pH of anything less than 7, an 'Alkaline Tank' anything greater than 7, with a 'Neutral Tank' being 7.
(Possibly something along the lines of what Uberhoust was talking about?)

 

[Naughts]

"Taking my given example as a starting point, (although assuming zero ammonia and a proper maintenance regime), what fish could be accommodated?"

Rather than looking for a simplistic algorithm for endless combinations, you could research each fish species to ensure you meet their needs.

Seriously Fish — Feeling fishy?

seriouslyfish.com

 

[Uberhoust]

@Naughts, once you go beyond your first tank I would say the time for simple tools are finished, but most people getting into the hobby don't put that kind of research into it, and requesting them to do so becomes a barrier to them getting good information. If we had a process for starting into the hobby that would be a better start for a lot of people. Example below:

1. How much room do you have for a tank? Will your floor handle the weight? Will your insurance cover the cost of a leak and the damage to the floor and or other structures.
2. Get a sample of water put it in a bucket and let it age a couple of days, take it to the fish store and get it tested for pH, KH, GH, NO3. Assuming that domestic water supplies do not have ammonia or nitrites in the water.
3. Given the pH, KH, and GH and the maximum dimensions of the tank there could be tank themes such as Radiant Cardinal Tetras, Classic Pearl Gourami, Colorful African Cichlids, etc. Themes provide an entire fish and plant suggestions with a section on alternatives.

Thinking about this this is what the stores should almost do. Give the customer a short form, a water sample bag, you bring it in and they tell you what would be possible.

I don't think it would be too difficult to make a database do a lot of the work with the exception of getting all the fish data entered. This would not be a tool for deciding on a specialized fish, it would focused on people just entering into the hobby.

 

[NannaLou]

Thinking about this this is what the stores should almost do. Give the customer a short form, a water sample bag, you bring it in and they tell you what would be possible.

I think your are spot on with this point. Staff in fish stores should have to pass some sort to exam/qualification and they should be aware of the cost and upset their poorly informed advice costs.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

"Taking my given example as a starting point, (although assuming zero ammonia and a proper maintenance regime), what fish could be accommodated?"

Rather than looking for a simplistic algorithm for endless combinations, you could research each fish species to ensure you meet their needs.

Seriously Fish — Feeling fishy?

seriouslyfish.com

I could and do...but I was wondering if there was a better method for acquiring stocking suggestions, especially for newer members to the hobby. When someone new asks about what to stick in their tank, they are very rarely simply told to do some research.