Fish tank has Ich

[Rhys19]

Hello, I am new to fish keeping only had this freshwater tank for a year it is a 30 gallon tank I did have 2 clown loaches (one was a year old) and the other was only maybe a month old, I didn't have a hospital tank and my father had fish for years probably maybe 10-20 years ago but I noticed ich on my clown loaches and none of my other fish had it so I bought something called API Super Ich Cure or something it's the liquid dosed it right for the first and second 48 hours and just did my water change I only had an API 100W limited heater that limited the tank temp to 78*F I just got my new heater off of amazon and I got my tank temps up to 86*F so i'm not sure what to do next

The following fish are in my tank now:
4 possibly 5 tiger barbs (They seem to be hanging near the top for some reason I have an air stone, etc so idk why)
2 Chineese algeae eaters
1 Common Pleco
2 guppies

The fish that died
1 year old clown loach (Unkown aprox date just bought from petco, also he died a few days after my other clown loach)
and then a baby clown loach - only a month old

So I'm not sure how it got into my tank I'm thinking it was the baby loach since I have no QT

Now towards my question
it's been after the medicine which it used all of the 4 ounces in the api super ich cure now Do I just keep my temp tanks up to 86*F and wait it out or do I go out and buy ich x or something?

Now relating to health with 86*F temps
My tiger barbs seem to stay near the top of the water and 1 of them if it goes verticle it looks like it falls asleep because it looses it's buoyancy I guess you call it and like floats around and then a few seconds later he wakes back up until he goes vertical again
so I am not sure if this is because of the high temp (What I looked up was their highest is like 68-79*F) or if it's the ich getting to them

also I bought Melafix quite a bit back but I accidently bought the pond version how many ML would I put in my 30 gallon tank I can't find a dosing chart anywhere on the internet I read that since it's a higher concentration you need to research the dosing and do it carefully I don't want to overdose if I use it so is there any idea on how much so I can write it on my medicine chart I made for my aquarium?

Thanks alot hope this isn't too long because I do tend to write out whole stories instead of short ones

 

[TomW]

I'm currently dealing with ich as well and unfortunately lost some fish, I'm not at all experienced but I think I can help with a couple of your questions, from what I've learned from my forum posts.

People have generally told me that 86 F will be okay and I also noticed my fish swimming near the top when I originally upped my temp, this causes lower oxygen content as the water cant hold it as well as normal temp ranges. Ich also attacks the gills so fish swimming near the top and rubbing against stuff is a common symptom of the parasite. The air stone I would say is very important to get the oxygen to dissolve in the water.

I haven't used any medication though, as I have shrimp, so I can't be of much help on that front as I don't have the experience with it. My LFS said ich x would be best as it contains a less toxic form of malachite green or formaldehyde, not sure which one so don't quote me on that, I was advised it's less toxic though.

The general response I have had from this forum is that heat treatment is the best route though as it is most natural and once meds are in the water column they are there for a while and can have long-term reservoir times.

Ich is a weird one as well as it affected my tetras but not my guppies. as regards to the pond medicine, I personally wouldn't use it for something that isn't what it described for, just in case.

Hope your little guys recover soon, and I know these arent direct answers to your questions but thought Id give you input that I have received.

 

[Rhys19]

I'm currently dealing with ich as well and unfortunately lost some fish, I'm not at all experienced but I think I can help with a couple of your questions, from what I've learned from my forum posts.

People have generally told me that 86 F will be okay and I also noticed my fish swimming near the top when I originally upped my temp, this causes lower oxygen content as the water cant hold it as well as normal temp ranges. Ich also attacks the gills so fish swimming near the top and rubbing against stuff is a common symptom of the parasite. The air stone I would say is very important to get the oxygen to dissolve in the water.

I haven't used any medication though, as I have shrimp, so I can't be of much help on that front as I don't have the experience with it. My LFS said ich x would be best as it contains a less toxic form of malachite green or formaldehyde, not sure which one so don't quote me on that, I was advised it's less toxic though.

The general response I have had from this forum is that heat treatment is the best route though as it is most natural and once meds are in the water column they are there for a while and can have long-term reservoir times.

Ich is a weird one as well as it affected my tetras but not my guppies. as regards to the pond medicine, I personally wouldn't use it for something that isn't what it described for, just in case.

Hope your little guys recover soon, and I know these arent direct answers to your questions but thought Id give you input that I have received.

Alright thanks for the information it helps a little, I've had the air stone for awhile in my tank it's just making me suspicious about my tiger barbs hanging near the top. and that heater heats my tank too much so I have the heater on my inkbird ITC1000F which shuts off when the temp probe for it reaches 86*F and then heats when it goes below 86*F so hoping for a few weeks my fish can survive.

 

[Rhys19]

so an update, my tiger barbs are now acting a little normal again, their no longer constantly sitting at the top of the tank, I did add my house I bought that has a built in bio wheel that spits out big air bubbles and some out of the chimney along with my air stone I did get some aquarium salt and put it and I was careful since I have a planted tank but everything seems ok so far.

going to wait 2 weeks and get a water test kit to check my water parameters and then change 25% of the water while vacuuming the gravel to help get rid of the ich

 

[TomW]

so an update, my tiger barbs are now acting a little normal again, their no longer constantly sitting at the top of the tank, I did add my house I bought that has a built in bio wheel that spits out big air bubbles and some out of the chimney along with my air stone I did get some aquarium salt and put it and I was careful since I have a planted tank but everything seems ok so far.

going to wait 2 weeks and get a water test kit to check my water parameters and then change 25% of the water while vacuuming the gravel to help get rid of the ich

Sounds like a plan, the plants arent at all salt-resistant really, obvs some strains will do better than others but ive been told the salt is to help create a block on the fish's skin / scales to prevent the ich from attaching to them, plants just dont like it at all. I was advised to do water changes around 2-3 times a week to clear up all the dead parasites so im doing one every 3 days. I have a smaller tank though so I do 50% each time, otherwise im not going to be able to clean all the gravel

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Hello, I am new to fish keeping only had this freshwater tank for a year it is a 30 gallon tank I did have 2 clown loaches (one was a year old) and the other was only maybe a month old, I didn't have a hospital tank and my father had fish for years probably maybe 10-20 years ago but I noticed ich on my clown loaches and none of my other fish had it so I bought something called API Super Ich Cure or something it's the liquid dosed it right for the first and second 48 hours and just did my water change I only had an API 100W limited heater that limited the tank temp to 78*F I just got my new heater off of amazon and I got my tank temps up to 86*F so i'm not sure what to do next

The following fish are in my tank now:
4 possibly 5 tiger barbs (They seem to be hanging near the top for some reason I have an air stone, etc so idk why)
2 Chineese algeae eaters
1 Common Pleco
2 guppies

The fish that died
1 year old clown loach (Unkown aprox date just bought from petco, also he died a few days after my other clown loach)
and then a baby clown loach - only a month old

So I'm not sure how it got into my tank I'm thinking it was the baby loach since I have no QT

Now towards my question
it's been after the medicine which it used all of the 4 ounces in the api super ich cure now Do I just keep my temp tanks up to 86*F and wait it out or do I go out and buy ich x or something?

Now relating to health with 86*F temps
My tiger barbs seem to stay near the top of the water and 1 of them if it goes verticle it looks like it falls asleep because it looses it's buoyancy I guess you call it and like floats around and then a few seconds later he wakes back up until he goes vertical again
so I am not sure if this is because of the high temp (What I looked up was their highest is like 68-79*F) or if it's the ich getting to them

also I bought Melafix quite a bit back but I accidently bought the pond version how many ML would I put in my 30 gallon tank I can't find a dosing chart anywhere on the internet I read that since it's a higher concentration you need to research the dosing and do it carefully I don't want to overdose if I use it so is there any idea on how much so I can write it on my medicine chart I made for my aquarium?

Thanks alot hope this isn't too long because I do tend to write out whole stories instead of short ones

To begin with, you should be told that your Clown Loach, Common Pleco and Chinese Algae Eaters are all fish that would grow to be too large for your tank. Clown Loach also need to be in groups.
Stressed fish are more prone to diseases and being attacked by parasites.
Of your fish, the Clown Loach would likely show external symptoms first, because they are scaleless fish. The ret may have, or have had, the ich, but it showed on the Loach first and you treated it with a recommended medicine.

You also increased the water temperature, which is a tried and tested method of dealing with the dreaded ich.

Oxygen gets into the water through the water's surface.
Increasing the water's surface increases the amount of oxygen that can diffuse into the water.
This is why it is helpful to have a filter that agitates the water surface and why aeration, through airstones, can be helpful. NOTE that a lot of rapidly rising, small bubbles, will have more surface area than a stream of slow, large bubbles.
The more oxygen you have in the water, the better.
@TomW is correct when he says that warmer water holds less available oxygen.

It is possible that a combination of ich, stress and warmer water, caused your Tiger barbs to become breathless and I'm glad to hear that they sound as if they're recovering.
The aquarium salt should do more good than harm, BUT, for future reference, be cautious when adding this to tanks with scaleless fish in it, because some can be quite sensitive to this and become stressed and uncomfortable. (Currently, you should be okay).

I'd resist adding any more meds to your tank and focus on restoring the balance of your water parameters, with regards pH, Nitrates, Nitrites, etc.. If possible, get the testing kit/s as soon as possible and begin testing right away. I've found the liquid test kits to be more reliable, but they cost a little more. If money's really tight, then at least get the strips. The sooner you know what your water's condition is, the sooner you can work to get it how it should be. A fortnight is a long, long time in fishkeeping and fish disease management.

 

[Rhys19]

To begin with, you should be told that your Clown Loach, Common Pleco and Chinese Algae Eaters are all fish that would grow to be too large for your tank. Clown Loach also need to be in groups.
Stressed fish are more prone to diseases and being attacked by parasites.
Of your fish, the Clown Loach would likely show external symptoms first, because they are scaleless fish. The ret may have, or have had, the ich, but it showed on the Loach first and you treated it with a recommended medicine.

You also increased the water temperature, which is a tried and tested method of dealing with the dreaded ich.

Oxygen gets into the water through the water's surface.
Increasing the water's surface increases the amount of oxygen that can diffuse into the water.
This is why it is helpful to have a filter that agitates the water surface and why aeration, through airstones, can be helpful. NOTE that a lot of rapidly rising, small bubbles, will have more surface area than a stream of slow, large bubbles.
The more oxygen you have in the water, the better.
@TomW is correct when he says that warmer water holds less available oxygen.

It is possible that a combination of ich, stress and warmer water, caused your Tiger barbs to become breathless and I'm glad to hear that they sound as if they're recovering.
The aquarium salt should do more good than harm, BUT, for future reference, be cautious when adding this to tanks with scaleless fish in it, because some can be quite sensitive to this and become stressed and uncomfortable. (Currently, you should be okay).

I'd resist adding any more meds to your tank and focus on restoring the balance of your water parameters, with regards pH, Nitrates, Nitrites, etc.. If possible, get the testing kit/s as soon as possible and begin testing right away. I've found the liquid test kits to be more reliable, but they cost a little more. If money's really tight, then at least get the strips. The sooner you know what your water's condition is, the sooner you can work to get it how it should be. A fortnight is a long, long time in fishkeeping and fish disease management.

Ah thank you for this information I have found it extremely helpful I was alerted about the clown loaches but I was planning on getting a bigger tank and I've heard they grew slowly so I had gotten smaller fish so I can have a small group of clowns however I might go about and getting rainbow sharks instead would that be better than the clown loaches? I liked seeing my clown loaches around and stuff but yeah the test kit I can get in a couple of days it's only $35 for the liquid test kit and for some reason the strip test kit is $40 at petco,petsmart but the liquid test kit is $25 on amazon not sure whether I should get it cheaper on amazon or go for the one in the pet store. also what is a recommended tank temp to help keep diseases away? my father always had his tank at 80*F but that was years ago and he only had angel fish, catfish, and I think he had a shark of some sorts, and he had like a 60Gal tank it might've been bigger though. however I have seen my pleco active during the day more with the temps on 80*F than before at 78*F with my old heater where he was only active at night. anyways so yeah would it be too much to add a few clowns (Baby clowns if i can find any) to my tank? or should I get some rainbow sharks?

 

[Byron]

First, on treating ich...never combine medications/treatments. Ich can be killed off by keeping the water temperature at (or slightly above) 30C/86F for two full weeks. Do not add salt (here this does nothing beneficial but it does further weaken soft water fish like you have) or any so-called ich medications. These at the least will stress fish out, and ich is caused by stress; the protozoan is present but healthy fish can easily deal with it unnoticed by us, but when under serious stress they generally succumb. [This is actually true for about 90% of aquarium fish diseases.] The ich parasite may have been in the tank already, or it may have been introduced with the new loach (probable). Do regular water changes, making sure the replacement water is dechlorinated and at the higher temperature.

Now to some other issues in your last post.

I was alerted about the clown loaches but I was planning on getting a bigger tank and I've heard they grew slowly so I had gotten smaller fish so I can have a small group of clowns however I might go about and getting rainbow sharks instead would that be better than the clown loaches? I liked seeing my clown loaches around and stuff

would it be too much to add a few clowns (Baby clowns if i can find any) to my tank? or should I get some rainbow sharks?

Loaches are highly social fish. A group will establish an hierarchy fairly quickly upon being introduced to an aquarium, so all of the intended number must be added together at the same time. If not, any subsequently added loaches may be attacked, harmed, even killed, by a dominant (alpha) loach who already considers this tank "his" space, period. Second, this fish attains 12 inches on average, though some report 16 inches; between 8 and 12 inches is normal in an aquarium. Growth from the 2 inch size often available in shops to 5 inches is quite rapid so the initial aquarium still needs to be large. The mature loach group will need at minimum a 6-foot tank; if this is not already available, plans may change and it would be best to forget this species. It has these needs and they must be met.

Rainbow sharks are another issue. Some can be very aggressive, others less. Territorial and combative with its own species; best kept in solitude (as they seem to live in their habitat). Young fish tend to be secretive, but as they mature some can become aggressive, especially with their own or similar species. This "shark" will get along with some of the loaches (Botia sp.) but other bottom fish should be avoided. In a large aquarium (6+ feet) a group of 6 could be attempted, but any fewer would likely result in the death of subordinate fish within the group. Here again, without a certainty as to the larger tank, you are better to look at other species.

There are several fairly peaceful loaches in the Botia genus, and some "dwarf" species in other genera. These do need a group of five or six minimum, but are better suited to the space you have for them, and generally more peaceful, depending upon the species obviously.

also what is a recommended tank temp to help keep diseases away? my father always had his tank at 80*F but that was years ago and he only had angel fish, catfish, and I think he had a shark of some sorts, and he had like a 60Gal tank it might've been bigger though. however I have seen my pleco active during the day more with the temps on 80*F than before at 78*F with my old heater where he was only active at night.

There is no temperature that will prevent disease, although keeping the tank above 86F/30C will obviously avoid ich. But not much else. And this high a temperature is a temporary measure for most species; permanent housing at such warm temperatures will stress out the fish, make it work harder just to carry out the essential life processes, and lead to early death and probable disease even before that. Angelfish can manage with 80F water, but most of our aquarium fish cannot, permanently. Not knowing the pleco species, I can't offer advice on temperature.

Temperature is important because it drives the fish's metabolism, and this is the functioning of the inner processes that keep the fish healthy and alive. Many of our fish are fine in the mid 70 F range, some better with cooler temperature (low 70's) some with warmer. Research the species to ensure you are acqui9ring fish that can function well in what you can give them, which means all fish requiring the same temperature (as well as other water parameters like GH and pH).

 

[Rhys19]

First, on treating ich...never combine medications/treatments. Ich can be killed off by keeping the water temperature at (or slightly above) 30C/86F for two full weeks. Do not add salt (here this does nothing beneficial but it does further weaken soft water fish like you have) or any so-called ich medications. These at the least will stress fish out, and ich is caused by stress; the protozoan is present but healthy fish can easily deal with it unnoticed by us, but when under serious stress they generally succumb. [This is actually true for about 90% of aquarium fish diseases.] The ich parasite may have been in the tank already, or it may have been introduced with the new loach (probable). Do regular water changes, making sure the replacement water is dechlorinated and at the higher temperature.

Now to some other issues in your last post.




Loaches are highly social fish. A group will establish an hierarchy fairly quickly upon being introduced to an aquarium, so all of the intended number must be added together at the same time. If not, any subsequently added loaches may be attacked, harmed, even killed, by a dominant (alpha) loach who already considers this tank "his" space, period. Second, this fish attains 12 inches on average, though some report 16 inches; between 8 and 12 inches is normal in an aquarium. Growth from the 2 inch size often available in shops to 5 inches is quite rapid so the initial aquarium still needs to be large. The mature loach group will need at minimum a 6-foot tank; if this is not already available, plans may change and it would be best to forget this species. It has these needs and they must be met.

Rainbow sharks are another issue. Some can be very aggressive, others less. Territorial and combative with its own species; best kept in solitude (as they seem to live in their habitat). Young fish tend to be secretive, but as they mature some can become aggressive, especially with their own or similar species. This "shark" will get along with some of the loaches (Botia sp.) but other bottom fish should be avoided. In a large aquarium (6+ feet) a group of 6 could be attempted, but any fewer would likely result in the death of subordinate fish within the group. Here again, without a certainty as to the larger tank, you are better to look at other species.

There are several fairly peaceful loaches in the Botia genus, and some "dwarf" species in other genera. These do need a group of five or six minimum, but are better suited to the space you have for them, and generally more peaceful, depending upon the species obviously.



There is no temperature that will prevent disease, although keeping the tank above 86F/30C will obviously avoid ich. But not much else. And this high a temperature is a temporary measure for most species; permanent housing at such warm temperatures will stress out the fish, make it work harder just to carry out the essential life processes, and lead to early death and probable disease even before that. Angelfish can manage with 80F water, but most of our aquarium fish cannot, permanently. Not knowing the pleco species, I can't offer advice on temperature.

Temperature is important because it drives the fish's metabolism, and this is the functioning of the inner processes that keep the fish healthy and alive. Many of our fish are fine in the mid 70 F range, some better with cooler temperature (low 70's) some with warmer. Research the species to ensure you are acqui9ring fish that can function well in what you can give them, which means all fish requiring the same temperature (as well as other water parameters like GH and pH).

ah I see very helpful so if I have a 30Gal tank then what type of "Bottom feeder" would you recommend I do like rainbow sharks they generally look cool. but I'm not sure if they would attack like my tiger barbs, guppies and the algae eaters.

 

[Byron]

ah I see very helpful so if I have a 30Gal tank then what type of "Bottom feeder" would you recommend I do like rainbow sharks they generally look cool. but I'm not sure if they would attack like my tiger barbs, guppies and the algae eaters.

I was going to ask what species are the "algae eaters" but in post #1 you called them Chinese Algae Eaters, so presumably these are Gyrinocheilus aymonieri. These have a bad reputation for eating the slime coat off other fish, and as they grow for getting more and more aggressive. They also really do not eat algae to any extent. And they grow to six inches and produce a fair amount of waste. I would recommend getting rid of these; certainly do not get any other loach-type fish with these present. Sorry for all the bad news, but it can't be helped. Unfortunately staff in most fish stores are frankly clueless about the fish, and if they die and you buy more, that increases their profits.

A solitary Rainbow Shark would work, if the CAE are got rid of. You might even be able to add a group oof the smaller loaches, like Botia striata, or Botia kubotai. A group of six, either species; they are quite peaceful, but again being loaches they establish their hierarchy but that in itself does not cause issues with these species. They do need lots of chunks of wood (or similar substitutes) to provide each with its own "home."

 

[Rhys19]

I was going to ask what species are the "algae eaters" but in post #1 you called them Chinese Algae Eaters, so presumably these are Gyrinocheilus aymonieri. These have a bad reputation for eating the slime coat off other fish, and as they grow for getting more and more aggressive. They also really do not eat algae to any extent. And they grow to six inches and produce a fair amount of waste. I would recommend getting rid of these; certainly do not get any other loach-type fish with these present. Sorry for all the bad news, but it can't be helped. Unfortunately staff in most fish stores are frankly clueless about the fish, and if they die and you buy more, that increases their profits.

A solitary Rainbow Shark would work, if the CAE are got rid of. You might even be able to add a group oof the smaller loaches, like Botia striata, or Botia kubotai. A group of six, either species; they are quite peaceful, but again being loaches they establish their hierarchy but that in itself does not cause issues with these species. They do need lots of chunks of wood (or similar substitutes) to provide each with its own "home."

Ah ok, I didn't know that about the CAE's no one in the petstore mentioned it and thanks for the info regarding rainbow sharks & the smaller loaches will have to see if the petstore carries them (If not there's an aquarium store (dedicated to fish, and reptiles) farther away. and for the CAE's I haven't actually seen them get aggressive they seem to be more of a scared fish, they do attach to the glass and when I had my pleco he wasn't doing much so I got the CAE's (The pet store staff mentioned this) and a few days later my algae was like gone and one of the CAE's were like fat. anyways I'll keep this post updated with updates about the disease. so salt is a nogo for me then right? and ich medicine if I get ich at all again should I use Ich X (Some websites say it's safe for planted tanks) those were really my questions I tried finding information on here about my questions but couldn't find anything on it


PS: I did come across a post about ich and clown loaches and some people on here recommended Ich X & Raise the heat to 86*F

also came across a post for the pond melafix this is my question here I do want to know
someone said you can use the pond melafix you just need the right dosing & there was a youtube video about it saying to buy pond melafix since it's cheaper? idk

if I can use this how much do I put in for a 30 Gal tank
the instructions say: 15ML per 150 US Gallons

other than this, I don't have anymore questions

 

[Byron]

Ich is best dealt with by increasing the water temperature and nothing else. None of these medications are "safe," depending upon how one defines the word "safe." To many it means the fish will not turn belly-up and die when the medication is used, but that does not mean it is safe to use. All medications added to the water can cause stress, and this only increases the likelihood the fish will get sick or stay sick with whatever they have. There are diseases that need specific medications, antibiotics, salt, or whatever...ich is not one of them. I have many years ago lost fish to ich because I used these so-called cures. The last three times I had it I simply raised the temperature as soon as I saw flashing (this is the first sign as ich attacks fish in the gills where we cannot see it) and it never materialized beyond that, and that was three or four years ago now.

Everything added to the water in an aquarium is likely going to get inside the fish. Fish "drink" by continually taking in water through their cells via osmosis. This water passes into the bloodstream and kidneys where various processes occur. Any chemicals, medications, etc in the water are likely to get into the fish. If these additives are really needed for the good of the fish, it is worth the additional risk; but otherwise, all additives should be kept minimal. Ich occurs in nature, but no one "medicates" the fish, they simply deal with it naturally. We see it much more frequently in our tanks simply because we stress out the fish with this and that.

 

[Rhys19]

So amazon just delivered my api test kit, it's the liquid one. going to test it and post my results

 

[Rhys19]

what would be normal water parameters? I know ammonia should stay at 0 and nitrate NO2- should be 0 but what about nitrate no3- and ph and ph high range?

 

[Rhys19]

so my water parameters are reading:

Ammonia:0.25ppm
PH: 7.6
PH High Range:7.4
Nitrate(NO2-):0ppm
Nitrate(NO3-):5ppm