Fish-in Cycling

[rabbut]

one little thing... I remember when I was a newbie I had no idea what the nitrogen cycle even was. While you explain the practical steps very well (and that is the most important bit after all), there's isn't much explanation of what happens in the nitrogen cycle (ie. fish waste = ammonia, converted by Bacteria1 to nitrite, which is onverted to bacteria 2 into nitrate). Probably not vital to explain, but I found it helpful to know where these chemicals are coming from. Maybe a little brief explaination in the "What is cycling" intro bit? literally a sentence or two.

Anyone else think this is worth doing?


thanks again
Rabbut

 

[st24rsap]

one little thing... I remember when I was a newbie I had no idea what the nitrogen cycle even was. While you explain the practical steps very well (and that is the most important bit after all), there's isn't much explanation of what happens in the nitrogen cycle (ie. fish waste = ammonia, converted by Bacteria1 to nitrite, which is onverted to bacteria 2 into nitrate). Probably not vital to explain, but I found it helpful to know where these chemicals are coming from. Maybe a little brief explaination in the "What is cycling" intro bit? literally a sentence or two.

Anyone else think this is worth doing?


thanks again
Rabbut

yep, it helps you understand the cycle process and in my opinion is well worth a quick mention

 

[Miss Wiggle]

there's already this topic http/www.fishforums.net/content/Tropical...-Tank-Syndrome/ in the cycling resource centre

and this one http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/ is the beginners resource centre

while this post is good, IMHO to be pinned it'll need to add value to the posts that are already there, so have a good read through and see if there are area's not already covered by those two posts.

 

[rabbut]

Miss Wiggle,

I basicaly created this post because I could not find a short(ish) guide to cycling with fish that contains values where ammonia and nitrite become more serious. The two threads you outlines are heavy reading, and may be prone to scareing off "newbies". I myself found them a daunting read. When I was witing this topic, I was aiming to condense the information out there, and add information about levels over which ammonia and nitrie get more serious.

Please don't get me wrong, I think yours, and Anna's posts are excelent, and you obviously put loads of effort into them. It's just that they are heavy reading, and though all relivant, may be offputting to a new menber to read. They also both miss the values over which ammonia and nitrite becomes dangerous short-tearm. Mebe if they were modifyed a little, it would be better to have one of those posts pinned, rather that resorce-centred, so that they are more easily findable

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Miss Wiggle,

I basicaly created this post because I could not find a short(ish) guide to cycling with fish that contains values where ammonia and nitrite become more serious. The two threads you outlines are heavy reading, and may be prone to scareing off "newbies". I myself found them a daunting read. When I was witing this topic, I was aiming to condense the information out there, and add information about levels over which ammonia and nitrie get more serious.

Please don't get me wrong, I think yours, and Anna's posts are excelent, and you obviously put loads of effort into them. It's just that they are heavy reading, and though all relivant, may be offputting to a new menber to read. They also both miss the values over which ammonia and nitrite becomes dangerous short-tearm. Mebe if they were modifyed a little, it would be better to have one of those posts pinned, rather that resorce-centred, so that they are more easily findable

All the best
Rabbut

i don't take it personally at all Rabbut, likewise I intended bring those topics to your attention to assist not to dissuade you. this topic is good and worth of showing to newbies to help them out.

unfortunately there's a lot of subject to cover in cycling with fish, it's heavy reading, but it's also heavy going to do a cycle with fish so warrants the heavy read IMHO.

Regarding missing the danger values of ammonia etc, you can (I believe) still post on those topics, as a short term solution why don't you add them as a reply to those topics?

personally i think all the pins for the beginners centre need reviewing and sorting out, they're hard to navigate and the obvious things aren't on the front page. Big job though for someone to take on!

 

[Erin8D]

Thank you so much! I was shnizzled into getting fish a few hours after setting up my tank!

 

[ZoddyZod]

Thanks for this. I've found it very helpful.

I too added fish too soon (after 4 days) as I believed the instuctions on a bottle of Nutrafin Cycle. Have been doing a 20% change daily to minimise the Amonia (25ppm) and NitrItes (0).

This post has really helped me to focus on what is needed and the best approach to take if the levels start to spike.

 

[Truck]

there is another incorrect statement on this guide:

In nature another set of bacteria would break nitrate down into nitrogen gas, and oxygen. This does not occur in the aquarium, as filters are designed to stop this. This is because the by-product of the nitrate breakdown phase is Hydrogen Sulphide, which is also toxic.

you are right in saying it is one of the most toxic substances on earth, but it can and will develop in fish tanks...in a freshwater tank it can develop in the substrate especially in sand and if disturbed it is not toxic to the tank inhabitants

2H2S + 3O2 > 2H2O + 2SO

as this chemical equation above shows, as soon as the hydrogen sulphide hits our oxygen rich waters (we know that its oxygen rich other wise fish would not be living in there) it changes into water and sulphur oxide which will rise to the surface and give an unpleasant eggy smell

 

[rabbut]

A fair point, and makes an edit worthy. However, the point of Hydrogen Sulphide being released being dangerous to the aquarium is still valid, as it can suck all the Oxygen out of the water if enough is released, killing your tank inhabitants through Oxygen starvation, rather than Hydrogen Sulphide poisoning. I'll accept that you can't say it does not happen in the tank though, and amend that to generally that stage does not happen in the tank, and you try to prevent it, as Hydrogen Sulphide's release can lead to tank crashed, or words to that effect.

 

[Truck]

thanks rabbut, thats a good point on the oxygen depletion

 

[lightyakomie]

im doing a fish in cycle and my fish are doing fine and the water levels are decently becomeing what i need em to be
one of the pinnapple swords is a lil retard but he was like that when i bought him i have a soft spot for the rejects lol

 

[Amberleaf]

DX Now, if only I had known that *BEFORE* everything went wrong in July....! DX

I did not know about the importance of a cycle, and did not know that you could do a fish-in cycle EITHER, so I ended up with one dead fish, one aggressive one, my first-ever fish killed by the aggressive one, and one fish being moved to the tank downstairs. DX

UGH.... Next time I'll do it right; next time, I tell ya! DX

 

[plecostomus-mad]

i also added fish way too early, like after 7 days of cycling.......this guide is exactly what im looking for! so nice job Rabbut very easy to understand and digest

 

[Ape-man]

Right... It's like this, I have the new tank, filters substrate etc, etc... Shall I leave it a week or so after adding "Stress Zyme biological filter booster" (as instructed) and do a fish-in cycle? Or shall I do a fishless cycle? I can pretty much predict your answers... But if you say fishless, where the hell do I buy Amonia from???

Ta
Andy

 

[waterdrop]

Right... It's like this, I have the new tank, filters substrate etc, etc... Shall I leave it a week or so after adding "Stress Zyme biological filter booster" (as instructed) and do a fish-in cycle? Or shall I do a fishless cycle? I can pretty much predict your answers... But if you say fishless, where the hell do I buy Amonia from???

Ta
Andy

Hi Andy and Welcome to TFF!

You've posted in one of the pinned articles we use as reference. It will be better to (perhaps after we decide on fishless, lol, so you can title it Ape-mans fishless cycle or something) start your own thread in the "New for the Hobby" section using the New Topic button.

The fantastic benefit of stumbling across this forum (or I assume any good one that is like this) is that unlike the beginner tripping in the darkness of the info vacuum of the LFS isle, you can learn here from all the combined mistakes of lots of other hobbyists like yourself. Walking into a store or reading a typical tropical fish book that has pretty pictures, you just have no way of knowing how important a "biofilter" is to getting you started right in the hobby. In my opinion, Fish-In and Fishless are not just choices on an equal footing. Fish-In (as we typically encounter it in the beginner section) is usually a major mistake, made by someone who has truly not experienced this stuff yet. Fishless cycling is just so easy by comparison. Trying of one's patience, but easy! Fish-In cycling situations are usually both, trying of one's patience *and* very hard and laborious work.

(I will mention that if you look around a lot its easy to get confused because there are plenty of very advanced hobbyists on forums like this. Here's an analogy: When you're a beginner on a musical instrument, every make of instrument sounds bad when you play it and the professional ones often seem even more difficult to play than the beginner instruments. If a professional musician comes along, he/she may be able to pick up any brand of instrument, even one never encountered before, and make it sound beautiful. So it is with experienced hobbyists. They can often play with any method of cycling a tank and make it work because they know what they're looking for and what to watch out for. By contrast the beginner will struggle and the differences between methods will be larger because the mistakes will be more numerous.)

I strongly recommend fishless cycling and using our reference article by rdd1952 as a starting point but having your own thread out there, with your line by line log posted in the first post and edited frequently, so the members can all interact with you and help you keep an eye on it. Finding ammonia depends on your location. Some thoughts for USA are Ace Hardware stores, grocery stores in the southeast and the big box stores sometimes. In the UK there are online and local versions of Boots, Homebase and others. In general you want the mop and broom section and you want to both look yourself and to ask, but not do only one or the other as sometimes they are hiding it in one way or another. The stuff you want must not have dyes, fragrances, surfactants or soaps. Ideally its clear and when you shake it the bubbes go away in 2 or 3 seconds just like water. It should not foam. The UK KleenOff brand has a lot of variations so be careful with that one I hear.

Good luck and I hope to see your thread. If your account is established and you're allowed to do advanced searches then you can use my name if you want to search for various old threads on fishless cycling to read stuff.

~~waterdrop~~