Fish Dying -help

[Ozzy Ozborne]

help!

I have set up a new tropical fish aquarium a few weeks ago and some of the fish are dying.
The advice I was given from the aquarium centre was :

Set up the tank and leave for 1 week with some plants in.Second week put 5 hardy fish in (I have forgot the names),and third week put a few guppies,and mollies in.
Everything was fine but I have had 3 fish die in the last 48 hours? A mix of guppies and mollies.
I have tested the water every few days for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH and all ok.I changed 20% of the water last Sunday as the nitrate was showing a little posative but well below any problem.
Is this usual or is there perhaps some other problem?

Thanks

 

[oscars r ace]

can we have the exact readings for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. and also the size of the tank.

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

can we have the exact readings for ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. and also the size of the tank.

Its a 180 lite Jewell .
The water readings have been taken using a paper dip process-I bought a kit with 25 paper strips in to test the water and compare the colours against the chart.

thanks

 

[Athena]

Those paper test strips are not 100% accurate - you would be better off buying a liquid test kit.

The advice your LFS gave you was not the best, I'm afraid. You are now doing a fish-in cycle, which means the fish are going to be exposed to varying levels of ammonia in the tank while your filter cycles (i.e. good bacteria must grow in your filter sponge in order to convert the ammonia to nitrite and the nitrite to nitrate).

When fish are just put into a new tank like that there are invariably some deaths.

It may take quite a few weeks before your filter is properly cycled and there are no guarantees you won't lose more fish during this time.

What you need to do now is daily water changes to keep the levels of ammonia down. Also, keep an eye on your fish as they may show signs of distress/illness and you will need to act promptly in order to save them.

It's good that you have put some live plants in the tank as these will help keep the chemical levels down a bit.

Try not to panic about it - I think the majority of people starting out in the fishkeeping hobby end up doing a fish-in cycle due to lack of proper information on setting up a tank.

There are plenty of notes on these forums about how to successfully do a fish-in cycle - here is a link to some of the info:

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264[/URL]

Once your filter has cycled and you are getting accurate zero reading for ammonia and nitrite every day, then you will gradually be able to add more fish. Only a few at any time and leave a couple of weeks between each new additions to give your filter bacteria time to multiply to the new stock level.

Regards - Athena

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

Those paper test strips are not 100% accurate - you would be better off buying a liquid test kit.

The advice your LFS gave you was not the best, I'm afraid. You are now doing a fish-in cycle, which means the fish are going to be exposed to varying levels of ammonia in the tank while your filter cycles (i.e. good bacteria must grow in your filter sponge in order to convert the ammonia to nitrite and the nitrite to nitrate).

When fish are just put into a new tank like that there are invariably some deaths.

It may take quite a few weeks before your filter is properly cycled and there are no guarantees you won't lose more fish during this time.

What you need to do now is daily water changes to keep the levels of ammonia down. Also, keep an eye on your fish as they may show signs of distress/illness and you will need to act promptly in order to save them.

It's good that you have put some live plants in the tank as these will help keep the chemical levels down a bit.

Try not to panic about it - I think the majority of people starting out in the fishkeeping hobby end up doing a fish-in cycle due to lack of proper information on setting up a tank.

There are plenty of notes on these forums about how to successfully do a fish-in cycle - here is a link to some of the info:

<a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264</a>

Once your filter has cycled and you are getting accurate zero reading for ammonia and nitrite every day, then you will gradually be able to add more fish. Only a few at any time and leave a couple of weeks between each new additions to give your filter bacteria time to multiply to the new stock level.

Regards - Athena

Those paper test strips are not 100% accurate - you would be better off buying a liquid test kit.

The advice your LFS gave you was not the best, I'm afraid. You are now doing a fish-in cycle, which means the fish are going to be exposed to varying levels of ammonia in the tank while your filter cycles (i.e. good bacteria must grow in your filter sponge in order to convert the ammonia to nitrite and the nitrite to nitrate).

When fish are just put into a new tank like that there are invariably some deaths.

It may take quite a few weeks before your filter is properly cycled and there are no guarantees you won't lose more fish during this time.

What you need to do now is daily water changes to keep the levels of ammonia down. Also, keep an eye on your fish as they may show signs of distress/illness and you will need to act promptly in order to save them.

It's good that you have put some live plants in the tank as these will help keep the chemical levels down a bit.

Try not to panic about it - I think the majority of people starting out in the fishkeeping hobby end up doing a fish-in cycle due to lack of proper information on setting up a tank.

There are plenty of notes on these forums about how to successfully do a fish-in cycle - here is a link to some of the info:

<a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=277264</a>

Once your filter has cycled and you are getting accurate zero reading for ammonia and nitrite every day, then you will gradually be able to add more fish. Only a few at any time and leave a couple of weeks between each new additions to give your filter bacteria time to multiply to the new stock level.

Regards - Athena

 

[Athena]

LOL - you liked what I said so much you quoted me twice

Athena

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

thanks for the info,it helps.

Just a question I am struggling to locally get a water test kit made by API.....all that is available is a Tetra test kit.Are these any good as most people reccomend API
Also Tetra only seem to do seperate test kits not one combined as APi
If I have to get a Tetra which tests do I need?

Thanks again !

 

[Athena]

Have you looked online? The one I use is Interpet Liquid Master Test Kit.

If you have to buy them individually, shop around as it can work out more expensive getting individual test kits.

The most important ones you need are ammonia and nitrite, if you can also get the nitrate that will also be very useful.

Regards - Athena

 

[oscars r ace]

the tetra test kits are fine, i use the tetra kits for Nitrite, Nitrate and PH, but nutrafin for ammonia.

As athena says do daily 20% water changes.

 

[LauraFrog]

I have had problems with the nutrafin ammonia test. It uses the indophenol reaction, so the third reagent (bottle 3) is phenol which is extremely sensitive to light... I left it sitting on the bench, in its closed cardboard container, and it still ended up stuffed. If you ruin the third reagent (which isn't exactly difficult) it gives false positives all the time and will read sky high ammonia when there isn't any present.

Dunno about the tetra ones... but pretty much any liquid tests are accurate and easy to use, API is usually recommended because it is very easy to use and interpret, and it's usually pretty cheap especially compared to buying them all separately. But most of them are okay. THe paper strips are no good.

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

Thanks

I keep changing the water but the fish keep dying.......
Is there any bacteria in a bottle and add to the water to quicken up the cycle?

 

[oscars r ace]

tetra safestart, it is ment to make the water instantly ready to put fish in once you have set up the tank, how good it is i don't know

 

[OldMan47]

There are lots of products that are advertised as bacteria in a bottle additives. The problem with them is simple to state, the bacteria we need require oxygen and a fresh source of ammonia to live and there is neither one in a sealed bottle. These products have been known to shorten a cycle all the way down to a total of 4 weeks, just like not using anything at all. At one time, a product was made that worked sometimes but it required constant refrigeration and had a short shelf life. The product was discontinued long enough ago that any remaining is like so many other dead bacteria samples you can buy, it is a total waste of money today.

 

[waterdrop]

If you are still doing 20% daily water changes without having correct testing and while fish are still dying then its entirely possible that the water changes are too small. When ammonia and/or nitrite(NO2) are present at more than about 0.25ppm then the emergency that constitutes to the fish is greater than most types of shock that would be caused by too large a water change with most water sources.

We assume you have a conditioner chemical (a chemical in a bottle that removes chlorine or chloramines, depending on which anti-bacterial your water authority puts in your tap water) and that you are using that per instructions when doing the water changes. I would be changing at least 50% of the water per day until I had a good testing kit to be able to see what the water changes are accomplishing in terms of diluting the toxins. When you make these water changes you should use the conditioner, per instructions, and use your hand to roughly temperature match the return water. If you take these two precautions, the water changes will be your friend in this situation and will at least give the fish the best chances of survival until you can get a test kit.

As mentioned above, we've had various off and on quibbles with the nutrafin kits (and the interpet ones for that matter) and even a few people grumbling about the api kits, but overall I get the sense that the majority seem happiest with the API Freshwater Master Test Kit, which includes, as said, ammonia, nitrite(NO2), pH and nitrate(NO3) tests and is liquid-reagent based testing, which is basically essential in comparison to strips, for beginners. Strips are worse than useless, they are misleading.

If you find you did not know about conditioner or don't have a good one, I'd recommend Seachem Prime as an excellent choice, perhaps a smaller bottle, as you can eventually move to less expensive pond dechlor products after your tank as stabilized and the filter colonies matured and your maintenance techniques are more established. For now, while things are going wrong, a product like Prime with help neutralize some of the excess ammonia if its there and will bind up heavy metals and do all of it in a very reliable fashion.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Ozzy Ozborne]

When I get a liquid water test kit do I test before a water change or after?