Fish Database

[PaulHR]

I'm very new to the site and love the simplicity of the forums, well laid out, clean to look at and I've received really useful advice to the questions I've posted where I've not had replies on other forums so the forums receives a big thumbs up from me

One thing I feel the site is missing is an awesome fish and plant database. To be honest, I've failed to find a good one anywhere (maybe i've not found it yet) that has very detailed advanced search functionality.

Is there any reason the site doesn't have one?

 

[fluttermoth]

We do have one; Fish Species Index here

 

[PaulHR]

I think the fish index is a great sub-forum arrangement, the content is consistent and informative but I'm putting an emphasis on "search" functionality.

Please bear in mind I'm very new to fish keeping and my journey in researching etc. has identified some gaps quickly obtaining what I need to know.

I want to be able to find fish under specific criteria, i.e. ph, temperature, type (community etc.), bio load and be presented with a nice grid view of photos which I can click into to get the information to help me very quickly find fish and plan my stock (from a newbie perspective).

It would also be nice to be able to have a "favourite list" so fish I find can be added to it for easy retrieval. I'd also find it useful if the fish in the database had compatibility linking so the fish I have in my favourites list would flag an indicator or warning if something I've chosen would not be suitable with other species I have chosen.

Summary charts would also be cool showing graphs using data held for the content in the database, geographical origins on a world map would be fun to look at.

The list could go on.....

If the data was linked with IPBoard back end then the possibilities become even more exiting. Members could choose their fish from the database and their profile page could then have an additional tab which will show pictures of the types of fish people have in their tanks and can drill down right there into the fish information. This would be fluffy stuff but still nice to integrate and have some USP's that no other fish related forums have. Using this data you could then produce top 10 type charts on the most popular fish with the community that people have in their tanks, I don't think any other site has that!

How about, based on forum member groups, forum group permissions could be used so only that group could administer / add / change content.

Allow interaction with data to allow members to added their own experience with fish by the way of interactive user input i.e. allow members to answer something like poll questions "How easy did you find this fish to keep? Option: Easy, Hard etc. You then present the results when viewing the fish profile with pretty graphs.

The more data that can be captured from the users the more you can do with it.

Really, I could spend hours writing more ideas

 

[Ps3Steveo]

Plant index so far Aquatic, Non aquatic, the aquatic needs some work tho as not all species are in there yet.

Got some typing to do .

 

[PaulHR]

Adding content can be very time consuming but once it's there, it's there.

It would still be nice to put in specific search criteria for the plants as well as fish. Has anyone looked into having a plugin for the site created to database plant and species data?

 

[Wills]

In fairness the species profiles on this site are pretty bad.... 40 gallons for a Severum... erm, nope!!

Maybe with the new mods and owners in place its perhaps time to try an update?

Im sure a few members would be willing to help out should you ask

Wills

 

[WILDER]

I agree Wills.
I think the profiles should be approved before being pinned.

 

[MBOU]

Agreed Wills, I think it's still a matter of it just being 'yet another thing' that needs working on, its going to be a mammoth task to do!! Thats for sure. But it has already been brought up and Steve is already working on the plant section.

I love the idea of a much easier fish database... but the trouble is... the search function will just end up being so ridiculously complicated that it wouldnt work. You wouldnt be able to factor in that some species just wouldnt get on with each other, even if they are technically compatible in every other way...

Then you would need multiple search options to keep narrowing it down...

Then who's opinion do we go by for minimum tank size? For example... I would keep a few neons in a 40L tank, many hre would be horrified by that idea!

I think, well.... i dont know about everyone else but once winter settles in, I ought to have a little more time on my hands to be on the forums and really look into the information. To be fair, just because we are mods, doesnt mean we know everything... if anyone is really uncomfortable about anything or information on the site, let one of us know and we can deal with it rather than waiting and hoping we spot it ourselves!

 

[PaulHR]

I love the idea of a much easier fish database... but the trouble is... the search function will just end up being so ridiculously complicated that it wouldnt work. You wouldnt be able to factor in that some species just wouldnt get on with each other, even if they are technically compatible in every other way...

The search functionality doesn't need to be complicated. I've since stumbled across a couple of online databases and they have daunting search options, it's not the way to do it and can be presented in a much easier way.

Regarding linking compatible fish, as I've been browsing a lot more it seems there some people have success with different species in the same tank than others. People have mentioned how the tank is laid out with areas for the more teritorial species and then there seem to be BIG no no's of species to mix. I'm still very new to fish keeping and these are my observations so far.

Linking fish can be done in a more inventive way and you can use the members to get that data. If the database had the ability for site members to specify what the have, that data can then be used to produce an organic status of compatible fish. The members can quickly build a pretty "I have these species" page in their members profile and the same data can be used to automatically used to suggest compatibility charts in the main fish database page(s) in a form of pretty graph etc.

Then you would need multiple search options to keep narrowing it down...

Multiple search options are a "choice" for the end user. If executed intuitavely, people will enjoy browsing through the database.

Then who's opinion do we go by for minimum tank size? For example... I would keep a few neons in a 40L tank, many hre would be horrified by that idea!

I agree there will be some metrics that will be difficult to capture and make available so these would could be looked at / added in the future but for a first release of a new database, get in the "no brainer" information first and look at what else can be added at a later date based on member feedback.

I think, well.... i dont know about everyone else but once winter settles in, I ought to have a little more time on my hands to be on the forums and really look into the information. To be fair, just because we are mods, doesnt mean we know everything... if anyone is really uncomfortable about anything or information on the site, let one of us know and we can deal with it rather than waiting and hoping we spot it ourselves!

I know exactly what you're talking about there which is why letting the fish database work smartly involving members can really help manage it. Let the data work for you!

 

[star4]

There are quite a few fish listed in the database with incorrect information. The main trouble is what one person experiences with a certain fish, the next person may get a different experience, especially with cichlids. Much of the information accross the net in total is all copied by people that have never even kept the fish they are writing about or my pet hate is putting down how to sex the fish and breeding information when they have never bred the fish either.

 

[Wills]

I agree its a ton of work.

Since this is a paid forum now - can the owners offer any incentives for people who write profiles? Or offer incentives to people on an invitational process.

Fish profiles are always contentious. And no matter what you write - a variant will be somewhere else which is closer to what the keeper wants to read - using Steves concept of the neons if this forums profile did not say 6 in a 40 liter someone will find a profile that says 6 in a 25 liter... So its tough on that front.

What it could do though through a search function is put together useful search things like search per tank size - based on either literage or some of the standard tank dimensions? A search by region tool is always nice as well so you can plug in something like Rio Negro and it pulls up a list.

An other good section could be a "cookie cutter" tank listing - so like some sample 25 liter tanks, 30 liter tanks, 50 liter tanks, 90 liter tanks, 100 liter tanks, etc etc.

It would give people some good starting points and nice and easy to take advatange of the sites high search engine ranking to help save some fish lives

Just a few thoughts

Wills

 

[star4]

Regarding linking compatible fish, as I've been browsing a lot more it seems there some people have success with different species in the same tank than others. People have mentioned how the tank is laid out with areas for the more teritorial species and then there seem to be BIG no no's of species to mix. I'm still very new to fish keeping and these are my observations so far.

Linking fish can be done in a more inventive way and you can use the members to get that data. If the database had the ability for site members to specify what the have, that data can then be used to produce an organic status of compatible fish. The members can quickly build a pretty "I have these species" page in their members profile and the same data can be used to automatically used to suggest compatibility charts in the main fish database page(s) in a form of pretty graph etc.


Compatability is always going to be a problem. I keep/rescue sa/ca cichlids, some fish I have together peacefully others have no end of problems with, it is such a grey area. A good thing regarding compatability would be to have the basic profile of the fish (tank size, fish size, water requirements etc) and allow members to fill in their own experiences with that fish to give those reading a clearer view of what they could be taking on. Oscars for example, I have one thats fine with other fish, the other a git! I fostered one for a while that I could put 2" fry in with her, each is different.



Linking by tank size, personally, is a great idea, a few of my rescued fish are from impulse purchases for tanks way too small for them.

 

[PaulHR]

In fairness the species profiles on this site are pretty bad.... 40 gallons for a Severum... erm, nope!!

Maybe with the new mods and owners in place its perhaps time to try an update?

Im sure a few members would be willing to help out should you ask

I can't comment on the profiles, I'm still learning but a collaborative effort may help there and a good designed database with a pretty front end would encourage collaboration more.

I agree Wills.
I think the profiles should be approved before being pinned.

Approval functionality could be factored in to the system.

There are quite a few fish listed in the database with incorrect information. The main trouble is what one person experiences with a certain fish, the next person may get a different experience, especially with cichlids. Much of the information accross the net in total is all copied by people that have never even kept the fish they are writing about or my pet hate is putting down how to sex the fish and breeding information when they have never bred the fish either.

The main fish index would contain basic "no brainer" information which is widely accepted by most fish keepers, any thing else that has grey areas, members can choose their own experiences and the data collected is present in a more flexible way.

I agree its a ton of work.

Since this is a paid forum now - can the owners offer any incentives for people who write profiles? Or offer incentives to people on an invitational process.

Fish profiles are always contentious. And no matter what you write - a variant will be somewhere else which is closer to what the keeper wants to read - using Steves concept of the neons if this forums profile did not say 6 in a 40 liter someone will find a profile that says 6 in a 25 liter... So its tough on that front.

What it could do though through a search function is put together useful search things like search per tank size - based on either literage or some of the standard tank dimensions? A search by region tool is always nice as well so you can plug in something like Rio Negro and it pulls up a list.

An other good section could be a "cookie cutter" tank listing - so like some sample 25 liter tanks, 30 liter tanks, 50 liter tanks, 90 liter tanks, 100 liter tanks, etc etc.

It would give people some good starting points and nice and easy to take advatange of the sites high search engine ranking to help save some fish lives

Just a few thoughts

Wills

Great idea2, as someone new into fish keeping I would definitely have found that very useful.

Compatability is always going to be a problem. I keep/rescue sa/ca cichlids, some fish I have together peacefully others have no end of problems with, it is such a grey area. A good thing regarding compatability would be to have the basic profile of the fish (tank size, fish size, water requirements etc) and allow members to fill in their own experiences with that fish to give those reading a clearer view of what they could be taking on. Oscars for example, I have one thats fine with other fish, the other a git! I fostered one for a while that I could put 2" fry in with her, each is different.

With regarding to compatibility just like you have pointed out, my research so far has shown there are quite a number of variables including fish personality can be different. Again, this can be captured in an easy creative way so when someone looks at a fish profile, the data can be visually represented by nice graphical indicators of data based on the organic data this is captured. Keep the index simple, pretty to look at, very simple to understand but allows more detail if the user want to look into the species even more so the ability to view textual data such as comments, experiences as you have suggested. That would help me no end as someone who has just started out.

Thanks to how the internet has developed and key focuses on collaboration, focus on collaboration around a fish database would be IMO key to it's success.

 

[Tizer]

I've always treated this as a discussion forum, not a database for tropical fish information, there are far far better sites out there to use for this sort of reference material. Seriously fish for example has a very good database of info, that is regularly updated / reviewed by some very knowledgeable people. PFK also has a wealth of information. imo, TFF just needs to stick to what its good at, building a community of fish keepers around a discussion forum and not try to be something it isn't. ;p

 

[SteveShrimp]

Hi Paul.

Have you seen the marine compatibility guide? Just google it as doubt I can leave a link to it for you. It does pretty much what you initial asked about.

Steve