First water change

[CRS]

Good Sunday morning to all It's actually sunny for once in Rochdale,

So, i filled my tank about a month ago, i've added loads of plants over the last three weeks, they have atleast doubled in size, some have trippled,
i added the first lot of fish last weekend 8 cardinal tetras, added the second yesterday 5 guppies and 9 shrimps (one of which i noticed has died during the night)
I still have all the tetras and guppies.

As of yesterday, these were the test results:

PH is about 7.
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 0ppm
ammonia 0-0.25ppm

When would you recommend doing the first water change? And for someone who hasn't done it before is it safe straight from the tap? How do you guys do it?

Thanks

 

[Essjay]

Once fish are in the tank, water changes should be done weekly. Fish and plants use up minerals in the water and a water change replaces these. Fish excrete and secrete many things we can't test for and these build up in the water so we remove them by doing a water change. With a fully stocked tank, most of us change around 50% of the water, though if the tank is not yet fully stocked it can be less than this.

Do you have a siphon tube? This is the easiest way to take water out of the tank, and you can clean the bottom of the tank at the same time.
Like this
If you not used one before, practice with a bucket of water.

When refilling the tank, put water conditioner into the bucket at the dose rate for the volume of the bucket, then run tap water in. The water needs to be about the same temperature as the tank water, testing the temp with your hand is close enough. As you are in the UK, it depends on how your hot water to warm the new water is made. If you have a combi boiler you can use hot tap water. If you have a hot water cylinder with a header tank in the attic, boil a kettle of water and use that to adjust the temp. (It's because of what could be in the header tank that you can't use hot tap water).
Pour the water into the tank slowly or the fish will get tossed around and you'll end up with a crater in the substrate.

You do need at least one bucket that has never been used for anything else. Make sure no-one else uses it for cleaning the car etc. as chemicals left in the bucket can kill fish.




The dead shrimp - was it opaque or see through? If it was opaque, yes it was a dead shrimp. But if it was see through, it was a moulted skin. Shrimps have to shed their skin to grow.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

@Essjay is spot on with all of the advice she has given.
Just one note...you will need to buy and add a water conditioner, to add to all water that you take from the tap and put into your tank.
@Essjay mentions this, but I feel it needs to be emphasised...I've had two contacts this morning where conditioner was not known about and/or not used and both had managed to kill much of their beneficial bacteria.

 

[fishyfun&fans]

is this also maybe too quick to put all that stock in?

i was always taught add fish gradually maybe 8 one week then wait another week or so too add maybe 4 more then wait another week to add more...and just carry on like that until stocked?

 

[Myraan]

A fishless cycle means theoretically your beneficial bacteria can deal with your total stock from day one. The advantage of this is quarantining will become pointless, as the display tank and quarantine tank are the same, and some people believe the BB will die off if you are not feeding them in full straight away.

Many of us prefer to be overcautious despite this, myself included. If you have plants, chances are in the long term you will be relying on plants to remove nitrogen, any BB will be dormant and just woken up on the days you overfeed or miss a dead neon, and that being the case stocking gradually to match your plant growth will also make sense. There is more to a mature system than the nitrogen cycle, we just emphasise it because it usually responsible for new tank fish deaths and is simple to monitor using test kits.

 

[Essjay]

If there are a lot of plants and they are growing so fast they can almost be seen growing, that's a plant cycle, and fish can be added quite quickly, though personally I prefer to err on the side of caution.
However, looking back, this seems to be a 520 litre tank

Photo of my 520L tank

Finally with help from 2 others my tank is in position and ready to go! The tank is 520L, i would appreciate any help if someone could point me in the right direction to what pump/filter to buy suitable for a tank of this size? This is the first set up on my own, any other help is appeciated...

www.fishforums.net

so 9 small fish plus a few shrimps in that volume is adding just a few fish and the plants should be able to cope easily. Even without the plants, this fish load would create just a tiny level of ammonia.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

A fishless cycle means theoretically your beneficial bacteria can deal with your total stock from day one.

"Theoretically" is a key word here for me also.

The advantage of this is quarantining will become pointless, as the display tank and quarantine tank are the same, and some people believe the BB will die off if you are not feeding them in full straight away.

It never occurs to those people that the BB can feed off BB and/or other bacteria and microorganisms, all of which will be present, unless you've diligently applied asceptic procedures throughout the cycling process and maintained a wholly sterile tank and environment.

Many of us prefer to be overcautious despite this, myself included. If you have plants, chances are in the long term you will be relying on plants to remove nitrogen, any BB will be dormant and just woken up on the days you overfeed or miss a dead neon, and that being the case stocking gradually to match your plant growth will also make sense. There is more to a mature system than the nitrogen cycle, we just emphasise it because it usually responsible for new tank fish deaths and is simple to monitor using test kits.

You spend all that time, messing with precise chemical doses and timings and associated measurements, carefully cultivating your beneficial bacteria and then throw in the whole new set of variables known as fish, not one of which will be identical to any other.
No matter how apparently successful your 'fishless' cycling may be, there's always a risk that the bacteria could be overwhelmed. It may not happen, but if it does, then the consequences can be catastrophic.
Why risk it, when you can use plants?

 

[CRS]

Once fish are in the tank, water changes should be done weekly. Fish and plants use up minerals in the water and a water change replaces these. Fish excrete and secrete many things we can't test for and these build up in the water so we remove them by doing a water change. With a fully stocked tank, most of us change around 50% of the water, though if the tank is not yet fully stocked it can be less than this.

Do you have a siphon tube? This is the easiest way to take water out of the tank, and you can clean the bottom of the tank at the same time.
Like this
If you not used one before, practice with a bucket of water.

When refilling the tank, put water conditioner into the bucket at the dose rate for the volume of the bucket, then run tap water in. The water needs to be about the same temperature as the tank water, testing the temp with your hand is close enough. As you are in the UK, it depends on how your hot water to warm the new water is made. If you have a combi boiler you can use hot tap water. If you have a hot water cylinder with a header tank in the attic, boil a kettle of water and use that to adjust the temp. (It's because of what could be in the header tank that you can't use hot tap water).
Pour the water into the tank slowly or the fish will get tossed around and you'll end up with a crater in the substrate.

You do need at least one bucket that has never been used for anything else. Make sure no-one else uses it for cleaning the car etc. as chemicals left in the bucket can kill fish.




The dead shrimp - was it opaque or see through? If it was opaque, yes it was a dead shrimp. But if it was see through, it was a moulted skin. Shrimps have to shed their skin to grow.

@Essjay is spot on with all of the advice she has given.
Just one note...you will need to buy and add a water conditioner, to add to all water that you take from the tap and put into your tank.
@Essjay mentions this, but I feel it needs to be emphasised...I've had two contacts this morning where conditioner was not known about and/or not used and both had managed to kill much of their beneficial bacteria.

Thanks for the help guys,

I have an FX6 and the water changes are really easy, as you can drain it this way.
I bought some conditioner and a 40L bucket, i did a 100L change to see how i got on first, the water temperature only dropped 1C and all the fish seem happy
Was surprised to see an alive blue shrimp come out of the pump, can you get mesh prefilters for the FX6?
I am away from work for a couple of days as of tomorrow and i'm worried about losing shrimp.

Look what i've found today
There's atleast 5 of them, i assume they are guppies as one of them has been hidding all day!

Yes the tank is 520L the plants have already trippled in size, i manually put some CO2 in the tank once a day and plant food once a week.

Any advice on the fry? i bought a small container and some food for them but i've already lost the clips for the container.

Is there a chance of them being eaten? i only have cardinals, guppies and shrimp

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

...can you get mesh prefilters for the FX6?

Yes, but a piece of ladies stocking will suffice just as well. (Use cotton or a rubber band to hold it).

Any advice on the fry?...Is there a chance of them being eaten? i only have cardinals, guppies and shrimp

The plants should give them more than half a chance of survival.

 

[CRS]

Yes, but a piece of ladies stocking will suffice just as well. (Use cotton or a rubber band to hold it).

The plants should give them more than half a chance of survival.

Thanks again, always seems to be you helping me out

You get my member of the year vote

 

[Ch4rlie]

No matter how apparently successful your 'fishless' cycling may be, there's always a risk that the bacteria could be overwhelmed. It may not happen, but if it does, then the consequences can be catastrophic.
Why risk it, when you can use plants?

If the fishless cycle was carried out successfully and the instructions for ammonia dosages at 3ppm were followed according to the fishless cycle article then doing a large water change and thus adding full stocking of fish straightaway will be fine.

This is one of the advantages of doing a fishless cycle, you can fully stock your tank very quickly.

The reason 3ppm of ammonia is used is basically to cater for any amount of fish into an cycled aquarium, 3ppm is a LOT of ammonia and this will create a lot of BB so therfore its very doubtful that a fully stocked tank's bioload will produce anywhere near 3ppm of ammonia and thus overwhelm the BB, especially if there are live plants (bearing in mind this is assuming the tank is not being vastly overstocked with species such as goldfish or plecos which are basically poop factories).

A major benefit of this fishless cycling method is that you can now fully stock your tank in one go. This means an average stocking level for your tank size. It certainly does not mean you can stock heavily or over stock. If for any reason you are unable to stock the tank when it is cycled, you can continue adding ammonia to keep the tank cycled. For this you should add the 1/3 snack amount every 2-3 days. The bacteria do not need to be fed every day and will be fine. Don’t forget the water change before adding the fish.

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

If doing a smaller tank like a 5 gallon or a 10 gallon purely for shrimps and snails, no fish, then would advise dosing at 1ppm ammonia for the fishless cycle will be more than sufficient as these do not produce much at all in the way of ammonia bioload.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

If the fishless cycle was carried out successfully and the instructions for ammonia dosages at 3ppm were followed according to the fishless cycle article then doing a large water change and thus adding full stocking of fish straightaway will be fine.

This is one of the advantages of doing a fishless cycle, you can fully stock your tank very quickly.

The reason 3ppm of ammonia is used is basically to cater for any amount of fish into an cycled aquarium, 3ppm is a LOT of ammonia and this will create a lot of BB so therfore its very doubtful that a fully stocked tank's bioload will produce anywhere near 3ppm of ammonia and thus overwhelm the BB, especially if there are live plants (bearing in mind this is assuming the tank is not being vastly overstocked with species such as goldfish or plecos which are basically poop factories).

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

If doing a smaller tank like a 5 gallon or a 10 gallon purely for shrimps and snails, no fish, then would advise dosing at 1ppm ammonia for the fishless cycle will be more than sufficient as these do not produce much at all in the way of ammonia bioload.

You like the fishless/chemical/mathematical cycle, I do not.
Each to their own.

 

[Ch4rlie]

You like the fishless/chemical/mathematical cycle, I do not.
Each to their own.

Heh, fair enough.

As long as we do research and learn from others what to do to minimise risks to livestock, then thats fine.