First Fish Tank

[dohntaut]

Hey guys im new to the forums and pretty new to fish aswell. I started off with one betta in a vase, but then i picked up an old tank from my neighbor. So I bought a filter, heater, and light, an some bacteria for the filter to cycle for a day. then i put my betta in, and i just recently put in an angelfish, 3 zebra danios, and 3 xray tetras. I heard that the beeta and angelfish usually dont get along but i havent noticed anything other than the occasional flaring. I also bought some plants, kinda got suckered by the local fish store.
Dont be too harsh on me if i did anything wrong, just any tips would be helpful, thanks.
Its a 75 watt Via Aqua glass heater, and a tetra whisper power filter 20.

 

[erk628]

What size is your tank? More then likely your going to have trouble with your stocking. You said you cycled your tank in a day? Did you get the bacteria in the bottle? If you did 99.9% of the time all the bacteria in the bottle is dead by the time you get it so its not going to help you at all, its not going to harm anything but its not going to help either. If you can I would take all your fish back and do what is called a fishless cycle you can find a link to this is my sig below. Your going to need to get yourself a good "liquid" test kit. Most of us here use API master "liquid" test kit. With this you can test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and ph. Don't get the strips because there really inaccurate make sure to get the "liquid" test kit. I would get this tomorrow if you can. Ammonia and nitrites at any level are toxic to your fish thats why you want to cycle your tank before adding fish so the bacteria will be colonized in your filter before you add fish so they can break the fish poo and food down without spiking your water. Like I said before if possible take the fish back and do a fishless cycle its so much easier on you and the fish.

If this is not possible then you will have to do what is called a fishin cycle which you can find a link to that in my sig below. With this method you will have to test the water several times a day with your test kit and do several water changes a day to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. At first your ammonia will spike high for a couple weeks and any time it goes above 0.25ppm you will have to do a water change to lower it. One of the bacterias that feeds on the ammonia grow a big enough colony to support that the next kind of bacteria will start to colonize which this kind feeds on nitrites. Once your ammonia levels hit 0 your nitrites will spike this is caused by the first bacteria converting the ammonia to nitrites. This next colony of bacteria that has started to grow will feed off of that but they multiple at a slower rate so it takes quit a bit longer to get a big enough colony to handle what the first kind of bacteria is producing. Once your nitrites reach 0 then your cycle will be complete. The second type of bacteria that feeds on the nitrites convert the nitrites into what is called nitrates which are not harmful to fish usually if kept under 100ppm this can be reduced with your weekly water changes.

So all in all if you do decide to do a fishin cycle you will have to test your water several times a day and anytime your ammonia or nitrites read above 0.25 a water change is needed. Usually between 50 to 90% but your reading will tell you more. Usually the rule of thumb is say if your readings are 1ppm and you do a 50% water change it will cut it half giving you 0.50ppm. Once you do a water change you will want to wait about an hour before testing again. I would suggest you read all the links in my sig below they will be very helpful to you and go into more detail about the cycle. Any questions you have feel free to ask we will be more then happy to help you!

 

[dohntaut]

Yeah i cant take the fish back, and its a 15 gallon tank. I cycled the tank on saturday, and yes the bacteria came in a bottle, i also used a water conditioner, that says it adds vitamins and anti viruses, and some thing thats supposed to remove nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, chlorine, and chloramines (novaqua+, and amquel+). The fish store guy said a day was good enough but i guess not. So i had the betta in during the cycle which was probably bad, but they're usually pretty hardy fish right? haha. then i bought the other fish yesterday so it was an empty tank with a betta for about 3 days. ill try to get a test kit asap though im trying to get this tank going on a budget lol.

i also dont know what im supposed to do with these live plants, i hear some people using CO2 and some nutrients, but i thought they can just live off the fish waste etc. I guess if it takes more work ill just let them die and buy fake plants.

 

[mbsqw1d]

not sure what the plant is on the left.. but the one on the right looks like Elodea Densa. I had some of that before my Dwarf Gourami ripped it into tiny pieces It is a VERY hardy plant, it can also be used as a floating type of plant to offer some cover for the water surface (some fish like this).

For so few plants you needn't worry about CO2 injection etc. Most important is the lighting realy. How long do you keep the lights on?

You're right! The plants do eat the fish waste (well.. the nitrates mostly, which come from after your filter bacteria has processed the ammonia and nitrite).

Something I try to mention to Betta owners is to try and get hold of some Dried Almond Leaves! They have medicinal properties beneficial to Bettas. http/www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/php/detail62_117071.php

Enjoy your fish keeping!

 

[dohntaut]

i usually turn on the lights around noon and turn them off when i sleep, so maybe around 12 hours, though some days around 6 hours as i turn them on when i get back from school. So does that mean i can go without buying nutrients, or if i were to lessen the time with the light on. Ill also look into those almond leaves. i bought my betta from a small place in chinatown, for 2$. I dont think they really took care of the bettas well, and mine looks pretty big, so im guessing hes pretty old, he seems less active when compared to my brothers betta (much smaller).

 

[drobbyb]

What size is your tank? More then likely your going to have trouble with your stocking. You said you cycled your tank in a day? Did you get the bacteria in the bottle? If you did 99.9% of the time all the bacteria in the bottle is dead by the time you get it so its not going to help you at all, its not going to harm anything but its not going to help either. If you can I would take all your fish back and do what is called a fishless cycle you can find a link to this is my sig below. Your going to need to get yourself a good "liquid" test kit. Most of us here use API master "liquid" test kit. With this you can test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and ph. Don't get the strips because there really inaccurate make sure to get the "liquid" test kit. I would get this tomorrow if you can. Ammonia and nitrites at any level are toxic to your fish thats why you want to cycle your tank before adding fish so the bacteria will be colonized in your filter before you add fish so they can break the fish poo and food down without spiking your water. Like I said before if possible take the fish back and do a fishless cycle its so much easier on you and the fish.

If this is not possible then you will have to do what is called a fishin cycle which you can find a link to that in my sig below. With this method you will have to test the water several times a day with your test kit and do several water changes a day to keep the ammonia and nitrites down. At first your ammonia will spike high for a couple weeks and any time it goes above 0.25ppm you will have to do a water change to lower it. One of the bacterias that feeds on the ammonia grow a big enough colony to support that the next kind of bacteria will start to colonize which this kind feeds on nitrites. Once your ammonia levels hit 0 your nitrites will spike this is caused by the first bacteria converting the ammonia to nitrites. This next colony of bacteria that has started to grow will feed off of that but they multiple at a slower rate so it takes quit a bit longer to get a big enough colony to handle what the first kind of bacteria is producing. Once your nitrites reach 0 then your cycle will be complete. The second type of bacteria that feeds on the nitrites convert the nitrites into what is called nitrates which are not harmful to fish usually if kept under 100ppm this can be reduced with your weekly water changes.

So all in all if you do decide to do a fishin cycle you will have to test your water several times a day and anytime your ammonia or nitrites read above 0.25 a water change is needed. Usually between 50 to 90% but your reading will tell you more. Usually the rule of thumb is say if your readings are 1ppm and you do a 50% water change it will cut it half giving you 0.50ppm. Once you do a water change you will want to wait about an hour before testing again. I would suggest you read all the links in my sig below they will be very helpful to you and go into more detail about the cycle. Any questions you have feel free to ask we will be more then happy to help you!

Completely agree. Some very good advice there.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi dohntaut and welcome to TFF!

You've done really well to move up from a beta in a vase to a nice sized 15g/57L tank. Your tank looks very nice! This is a very active beginner forum and we get quite a few cases like yours each month, so you've come to the right place. You have a classic situation for us where the LFS advice is completely off-the-wall wrong but the newcomer to the hobby has come in with the best of intentions! You are in what we call a "Fish-In Cycling Situation" (which is the more urgent emergency) and also have some potential stocking problems (which for the most part can probably wait.)

The write-up by erk up there is good and I agree with Robby that that good advice will get you started heading in the right direction. Be sure to start right away on your "homework" assignments of reading in our Beginners Resource Center and be sure to begin reading the discussion threads by other beginners as that's one of the most fun ways to learn and participate. The concern with your cute angel is not immediate, its that when it gets much bigger and more mature, the problems between it and the beta may flare up and also that the tank is unfortunately exactly half the minimum volume size of a tank that an angel should live in. But all these details will get worked out. The important thing is that you are obviously a caring hobbyist and now you've stumbled on perhaps the best place possible for hobbyists who love fishkeeping! Hope I'll see you around.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[dohntaut]

well i checked my local fish store and they didnt have any water testers, (its a pretty small place). should i just do a 50% water change now since i havent done one yet, ill try to find another store that might have the testers, or maybe online, but it seems like it may be too late by the time it comes in the mail.

 

[drobbyb]

A waterchange certainly won't hurt. I would start with 50% once a day until you can get a test kit. After that the tests will tell us how much needs to be changed.

 

[dohntaut]

alright so i did a 50% water change, i noticed that there was a small build up of film on the top of my heater, i think its algae. also my filter tube goes about half way down the tank, is it supposed to go all the way just above the gravel?, if so where do i get an extetion for the tube?
should i be worried about any of these

 

[Assaye]

Great that you've got the betta out of the vase!

However . . .

15 gallons is no where near big enough for an angel fish. These guys get to 8 inches tall and 6 inches long and need 18" deep tanks as a minimum. You're looking at 40 gallons for those guys.

You also can't cycle a tank in a day. It just isn't possible. Bacteria in a bottle gives a minor boost at best. Cycling requires naturally occuring bacteria to move into your filter as a result of there being a food source present. The food they eat is fish waste. Yum yum. However, it can take days for the little critters to realise that there is food in the tank and it takes many more days for the population to get big enough to sustain fish.

In the meantime, your fish are going to be exposed to two very nasty chemicals - ammonia and nitrite. If you can't return the fish, you're going to have to do very large water changes every single day for a while.

The most important thing for you to get is a decent liquid test kit that does at least ammonia and nitrite, and ideally pH, KH/GH and nitrate. Test daily, do as many water changes (between 10% and 90%) as necessary to keep ammonia and nitrite at ZERO. If you don't do this, your fish will be hurt. Imagine breathing in acid 24/7. Until you get a test kit, do between 50% and 75% a day.

Don't worry about the angel right now but he IS going to need to be rehomed.

Resource Centre

The Nitrogen Cycle

Fish-In Cycle

 

[dohntaut]

well to update, ive been doing daily 50% cycles, i found a test kit at a bigger fishstore, but i didnt have enough cash on me, most of my fish seem fine however i noticed today that my angel has been just staying on the bottom of the tank should i be concerned

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, a fish like that hanging in a particular spot is a sign of stress, often stress from water chemistry problems. A good testing kit remains quite an important priority for you. Many of us use and like the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Salifert individual kits are even better but can be a bit harder to find. Nutrafin kits are also ok. The important thing is that the kits be liquid-reagent based tests (ie. using testtubes, not paper stips.)

Although its not good ongoing, you can continue to guess that things are bad and increase the volume of your changes somewhat (from 50% to 75%) as long as you use good technique: be sure to use conditioner to remove chlorine/chloramines and do rough temperature matching (your hand is good enough for this.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[dohntaut]

could the stress also be due to an air powered ornament i recently added, it was making a lot of disturbance in the water, but i adjusted it so that the bubbles are as slow and as few as possible, or maybe because my betta chases the angel sometimes?

i took a water sample to a petsmart since they do free water testing, and it came up with Ammonia 0.50, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate 5.0, so this means i do a 50% change?

 

[waterdrop]

I would do a 75% water change with good conditioner and rough temperature matching as soon as possible. The fish will be sustaining permanent gill and some nerve damage with those numbers and may not live long. Its just the nature of fish-in cycling situations, often they need twice a day testing and daily water changes.

Its also true that its quite easy to frighten and stess fish with air driven decorations. My son, like most kids, really likes these be even he has realized most of his fish don't! Still, in your case I suspect nearly all the stress is due to the water parameters, which to the fish probably feel like suffocation.

~~waterdrop~~