First Cycle- It's All Gone Green And Yucky

[travelling-guppy]

I am doing my first ever fishless cycle. I set up my new tank and planted the gravel and have been proud of my efforts. Now the whole thing is turning green. It looks completely horrid. Have I done something wrong? How do I get it looking nice again? My plants are all tangled up and some of them look like they are dying. My ammonia is falling within 24hrs but the nitrites are off the scale still. How much longer will it take for the nitrites to fall. I want to get some fish and I am struggling to be patient, especially now the tank looks so bad. Will the fish eat the yucky algae? Can I save my plants?
But the most important question is HOW LONG DO I HAVE TO WAIT? It is taking ages!

 

[AstonN24vantage]

it sounds like an algae bloom. look around the site. im sure you'll find something. they do make meds for it, but that should be your last resort. it was for me. how long is your light on for?

 

[travelling-guppy]

It is on for 11 hours. Is that too long? Thanks for any advice.

 

[the biffster]

i would say so i would drop it to
about 9 hrs a day whats your stats
at the moment on the tank

 

[travelling-guppy]

Thanks. I am adding ammonia up to 4 ppm daily and its dropping down to 0 in 24 hrs. NItrites still off the scale. Have just bought nitrate and ph testing. Will measure those later today.
I will reduce the light time. Hope this helps.

 

[waterdrop]

As I see it, you have a couple of options here. If the plants are all in poor enough shape or you didn't pay too much for them and could handle their loss, you could remove them and continue the fishless cycle without light. If instead you feel strongly that they are still viable and you want to try and save them then you could try a 3-day tank blackout (in addition to not using any light, you wrap the tank in some way to block out light as much as possible, being careful not to have anything causing problems electrically or with the water.) Then after the blackout you would come back with 4 or 8 hours of light per day (some like to have their tank lit during both morning and evening periods when they are there to look at it and yet want to limit their overall hours so as not to get green water algae. When you do that, its important to remember that vascular plants need at least 4 hours to get their photosynthetic machinery in gear and accomplish some useful sugar production. The period of the light being off in the middle of the day is just to accomplish less light overall, not as some sort of cure for algae - does that make sense?)

Its noteworthy to comment here that one of the additional reasons that a blacked-out bare tank fishless cycle may be beneficial (for people who make that choice before starting their fishless cycle) is that most autotrophic bacterial species like the ones we want are inhibited by light and will grow more preferentially in the dark, so the dark would accomplish two things for us, algae avoidance and bacterial growth enhancement. Note that I'm saying "may" help, its not some sort of big known factor that people have discovered, so its not likely that our bacteria growing better in the dark is a very significant factor overall.

Let us know your overall situation with the plants and maybe some of the members can help you with the decision or with the actions to take after you make the decision.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[travelling-guppy]

Thanks Waterdrop and the biffster.


I think I might try the blackout idea. If I do the blackout, how will I prevent the algae from coming back? Does anyone know if reducing the light time be enough? Will the fish eat it when I finally get to fish keeping rather than bacteria breeding?
Anyone have any idea how long the cycle will take? My readings are as follows:
Ammonia - 0 (adding 4ppm per day)
Nitrite - off scale
Nitrate - 100ppm
pH - 8.5
Questions , questions, questions. I have been cycling for 3 weeks. It seems like infinity though. One LFS where I bought my tank said I could get fish after a week, the other said I could get fish the next day. It falsely raised my hopes. I wish they hadn't. I suppose at least the cycle has given me a bit of time to research stocking my tank.


Thanks for any help.

 

[waterdrop]

Don't worry, your fishless cycle sounds to be proceeding normally. At three weeks you might be halfway or you might a third of the way. As far as the process goes, you are in the second of 3 phases, called the nitrite spike stage. Once nitrite(NO2) drops to zero ppm within 24 hours of when ammonia was dosed, you are beginning the third phase. Then you watch nitrite and do an extra test at the 12 hour mark (you only ever dose at the 24 hour mark and only if ammonia has reached zero in the previous 24 hours.) When both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) finally manage to clear to zero ppm within 12 hours, you are ready to start your qualifying week (where you just confirm that it continues this for a week, while you make final plans, seeing whether you can actually get the fish!)

No the fish will not eat and (much) of the algae (unless you stocked otos or BNs or such) after the fishless cycle, you will work on cleaning it. Yes, reduced lighting hours (or fewer lights but I'm assuming you only have one tube) will be your main tool at this point. You need the ammonia in there for the cycle (by the way, you can reduce your dosing to only 2 or 3ppm during the nitrite spike phase, but bring it back up to 5ppm for the final phase) and ammonia + light is what triggers algae spores. I'd try 4 hours of light after the blackout is over. Give your plants a little nutrition too, its a sterile tank for them.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BigIan]

Most Aquatic plant life (this includes algae) will readily consume ammonia if it is avalable, and so the high leveles of ammonia in your tank coupled with the high photo period are providing the algae with the perfect conditions for growth.
It is my personal opinion that algae blooms during a cycle help the tank to develop better the algae provides the ideal enviroment/food source for micro fauna and flora, that are an essential part of the biological balance of the tank.
i would cut the lights down to about 6 hrs a day and see how that goes, the real test will come once your tank has cycled, this is the point where there will be less neutrients in the water column to feed plant growth so you may be able to step your lighting regimn up.

but at the end of the day its algae its easy to clean up.

 

[roadmaster]

For myself,, With nitrites "off the charts" and nitrAtes present, I would reduce the drops of ammonia by one half and test after 12 hours to see at what rate the levels read zero.
If levels still read high,then I would test after 24 hours.
Bacteria is present as indicated by nitrites and nitrAtes and adding ammonia daily at this point at levels that fishes will never even see half of,only prolongs the process in my biased opinion.
I agree that too long of lighting period combined with perhaps too much light, or wrong type of light,and ammonia,, = algae always.

 

[GrayScale]

In addition to dropping the amount of time the light is on... Is your tank near or across from a window in direct sunlight?

 

[travelling-guppy]

Thanks Biglan, GrayScale, roadmaster and Waterdrop.


The tank is away from direct sunlight and windows, GrayScale. The worst bit of green is on the gravel below the lights so I guess that is why it has happened. Left the lights on too long. I will try reducing the dose of ammonia that I m adding too.


I have pulled the strandy stuff away from the plants and they look much better. How do I clean the gravel and the shells I have in there? They are coated in a film of dark green. I could boil the shells but I don't want to get rid of the precious bacteria from the gravel that it has taken me so long to grow.


Also, Waterdrop , you mentioned feeding the plants. What do I do that with. Sorry to ask so many questions. I never knew how complex fish keeping is. (although I am only bacteria and plant keeping at present). Can't wait for fish day!

 

[waterdrop]

Are they real seashells or fake decorations? Its not good to have any sort of real shells or coral in a freshwater tank unless you understand that it can raise the hardness of the water to a great degree and that is what you intend. In fishkeeping it is nearly always desirable to try to have your tank pH and hardness stay relatively close to that of your tapwater.

Anyway, if they are decorations, you just pull them out of the tank (its nice to have some sort of plastic tray (or the large lid of a plastic storage container, that sort of thing) for use next to you when you are pulling things out or trimming plants etc.)... you pull the decorations out and cart them to a sink, where you scrub on them with an aquarium sponge and/or brushes you have for the purpose. I find that white Fluval replacement sponges have a good scratchy consistency that I like for cleaning both glass and other tank items, so I get some of those and cut them up to a nice hand size. New toothbrushes or other little brushes can be good (its important to note with all these things that you don't want to use old items that may have some chemical left over from some other funtion or to use sponges from a store and not realize they've been made to have added soaps or something.) Its important to realize as a beginner that beautiful tanks don't just happen, they often require some good elbow grease and attention each week during maintenance (hopefully though, your algae problem is temporary!)

The solution for the algae on the gravel is simply to gravel clean it, thereby turning it over randomly and causing many of the surface pieces to be covered over, where the algae will die from lack of light. Obviously you can also just do this with your hand, and probably even better than the gravel cleaning cylinder can.

Note also that water changes are also a component of combating algae and even during fishless cycling this is no exception. Even though we don't like to water change too much during fishless cycling, we can do it occasionally and then just recharge the ammonia and go forward. Water changing helps to cut way down on free algae spores. This is not to call attention away from fewer light hours though as that is the main remedy to apply.

~~waterdrop~~
edit: forgot about the plant nutrition: Even though an average aquarium with plants (no special addition of CO2 or bright lights) will provide enough macro and micro nutrients via the fish waste and incoming tap water, the fishless cycling aquarium is a special case because it is both new and also doesn't have fish! Because of this, some very small doses of fertilizer can be a lifesaver to the plants. In the UK I'd recommend finding a bottle of TPN+ (Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus, the Plus part being important) and a bottle of EasyCarbo (or other liquid carbon) and I'd dose the Easycarbo per instructions, whereas I'd only dose a fourth or half the recommended amount that the TPN+ says (the assumption being that their amounts are more for tanks that are begin "pushed" with extra light and CO2, which yours is not.) If in the USA, then Flourish Excel is the liquid carbon and a set of other Flourish ferts can be used to cover the macros and micros (we can help further if you are US based.)