Fin Rot

[denzil1nil]

please can anyone help i have a 30 gallon live planted (no c02 sytem only plant ferts used at correct dosage)community tank housing 2 Marble Hatchetts 3 neon tetras 1 Diamond Tetra 1 Bristlenose catfish 1 Female fighter 1 albino red fin shark and two red crabs all these are mature fish/crabs. I change 30% - 40% of my water every week and vacumn a different area of the tank each time also i control my feeding well and prefer not to feed live foods. I Set up this tank around 14 months ago using the equipment,plants,gravel,decor,water and fish from my previous setup (the only disease i ever had in this tank was itch when i put my first fish in, the itch or white spot was treated quickley and never returned. I have had no problems with this new set up until about two months ago when my male siamese fighter died from what i discoverd was finrot then a week later i had to humanley kill 4 leopard danios then a marble hatchett then my two female diamond tetras also had to go leaving me the fish i have now. I didnt medicate at the time as i was unsure of what to do after reading up on the internet which seemed to contradict itself alot so i just did extra water changes which seemed to work for about a 6 weeks until i tried to add 5 chopper harlequins (i add my fish over the course of an hour floating in the tank adding water to the bag every 20 mins before release) which when i woke the next day all five had the beginnings of fin rot two of which were quiet severe so i removed them immedietly and decided to seek advice from my retailer who tested my waters and concluded that everything seemed fine and sent me home with Waterlifes Myxazin (do i need to change the lighting situation with this medication?) treatment with instructions to do a five day course then add my carbon filter cartridge and then start doing water changes again he also advised to do my water changes in the week as oppossed to the weekend as the waterboard flush out there systems over the weekends and theres more chemicals in the water at this time. i started treating today as advised by my retailer and wonderd if anyone can offer any more sound advice as finrot is causing me more grief than it surley should and the last time i checked my tank my female fighter had a small split in her tail i hope i dont lose her. Any help much appreciated.

 

[This Old Spouse]

How did you determine the first fish, the betta, had finrot?

 

[denzil1nil]

i bought the fish which seemed in good health and i had reserved for 6 weeks in the shop before i broght him home but after a week the two small fins under his cheeks dissapeard then the rest of his fins rotted over a week or so before he died i assumed it was fin rot after comparing it to various pictures and descriptions i found on the net all cases start with a split or what looks like nipping with a milky white colour at the base of the infection there is no reddening of the fins that i can tell though but ive observed the fish alot as i have plenty of time on my hands i have seen no bullying from other fish and the red fin shrk is mildy terrortorial but not what i would call aggresive

 

[This Old Spouse]

It does indeed sound like fin rot, and not like it was just being bullied. Do you know the conditions he was kept in at the LFS?

 

[denzil1nil]

im not sure no but i live just down the road from the store so id guess the same water as me and i use the same water coditioner as th store which is nutrafins aqua plus

 

[This Old Spouse]

But many times bettas are kept in little jars, not aquariums. If that's the case it would've caused him a lot of stress which can bring on maladies like fin rot.

 

[denzil1nil]

after testing my waters at the store he said they were all how they should be and couldnt find anything wrong this is the thing that annoys me most about the fin rot as everything i read about the infection pretty much points to bad water quality but ive allways changed my water weekley been carefull with feeding and bascally kept good maintenance all round but i also understand im no expert in fish keeping and may be missing something here.

 

[denzil1nil]

after testing my waters at the store he said they were all how they should be and couldnt find anything wrong this is the thing that annoys me most about the fin rot as everything i read about the infection pretty much points to bad water quality but ive allways changed my water weekley been carefull with feeding and and bascally kept good maintenance all round but i also understand im no expert in fish keeping and may be missing something here.

 

[Rummynose]

Sorry about your fish!

It would be a good idea to purchase a liquid test kit so you can check the levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate yourself, you may also want to look into what ph is normal for your city's water and compare it to the level in your tank.

I am not sure about your stocking, those red crabs, how are you giving them access to surface air? Your stocking is terrible, that may be why you are having problems with your tank!

This are all the warnings that came up in Aq advisor with the stocking you initially had:

Note: Betta [Female] can still become aggressive even if she doesn't show aggression right away. Not recommended to be mixed with peaceful community species. Also, they may jump - lids are recommended.
Warning: Betta [Female] is not recommended to be with Betta [Male] due to high male aggression.
Note: Betta [Male] may jump - lids are recommended. They can become stressful under presence of too many shoaling species. Try to keep under 1 shoal if the tank is small. Individual bettas may exhibit varying degrees of aggression and care should be taken that exceptionally aggressive/territorial fish be separated from a community before any damage may occur.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Betta [Female] - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Marble Hatchet - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Bristlenose Pleco - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Rainbow Shark - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: Betta [Male] is not recommended to be with Leopard Danio - further research is highly recommended.
Warning: At least 5 x Diamond Tetra are recommended in a group.
Warning: Rainbow Shark is too aggressive to co-exist with Diamond Tetra.
Note: Marble Hatchet may jump - lids are recommended.
Warning: Rainbow Shark is too aggressive to co-exist with Marble Hatchet.
Warning: Rainbow Shark is too aggressive to co-exist with Neon Tetra.
Note: Bristlenose Pleco needs driftwood.
Note: Rainbow Shark may jump - lids are recommended.
Warning: Rainbow Shark is not recommended for your tank - it may eventually outgrow your tank space, potentially reaching up to 6 inches.
Warning: Neon Tetra may become food for Rainbow Shark.
Warning: At least 5 x Marble Hatchet are recommended in a group.

Warning: At least 5 x Neon Tetra are recommended in a group.

Warning: At least 5 x Leopard Danio are recommended in a group.

 

[denzil1nil]

i suppose but that was a while ago now and i had a month with no infections and everything was fine so i added the 5 chopper harlequins which all had finrot the next morning so i had took them out and now my female fighter has the start of what looks like infection could this be because i didnt medicate aswell at the time and the infection is still living in the tank?

 

[Rummynose]

Well, now your stocking hasn't gotten any better by adding more fish to the tank!

Your stocking (the fish you have chosen and are forcing to live with each other) is causing stress in the tank, try to come up with a better stocking plan and do some research if the fish you want are suitable for your size tank, and compatible with each other.

Return the fish that do not belong in your tank to the store where you bought them or rehome them elsewhere. Once the stocking is sorted out and you keep your water quality well (that's why you need a test kit, so you don't have to believe what the store is telling you) then the fish's immunes-ystem may take care of the problem themselves!

You can't fix your stocking problem by adding meds to the water!

Do you still have the crab? The crab wasn't even an option on aq advisor, he probably does not belong in your tank either! But maybe someone more knowledgeable can you advise you on that here better.

 

[denzil1nil]

the tank has driftwood that emerges from the water which they climb and sit on they also sit on top of the internal filters the tank has condensation lids on to keep the crabs and any jumping fish in and moisture off the lights above and the tank whichis based inside a solid wood table with four viewing windows which is also vented i understand that siamese fighters are kept on there own in small pots next to a male either side which i personally dont like but hey what can ya do but i have had a male and female siamese fighter in the past in a community tank with similar fish to what im keeping now except for the diamonds and harlequins i tried to add recently and all my fish get along fine honest and when i have brought an aggresive fish in the past (a red tail black shark) ive rehomed it with a friend who has a huge tank.

ill look into the stocking a bit more but ive had a crab hatchetts neons and siamese fighters all together before when i was younger and they were fine no infections or disharmony

 

[denzil1nil]

thankyou for the help so far ill look into stocking and purchasing a test kit, any recommendations? any more help would be appreciated ill check back here tomorrow as its nearly 2am in the uk thanks people for your time and advice at this moment.

 

[snazy]

Is Waterlifes Myxazin treating fungal fin rot, or just bacterial?
Just watch for improvements. What is the damage from the fin rot like, missing parts of the tail and fins, with other parts not affected, or more "symmetric" damage spread all over, if I may say?
I think you need to buy a liquid test like Api and test the water. Such a severe damage overnight sounds like ammonia to me.

 

[Rummynose]

thankyou for the help so far ill look into stocking and purchasing a test kit, any recommendations? any more help would be appreciated ill check back here tomorrow as its nearly 2am in the uk thanks people for your time and advice at this moment.

A lot of people here use the API master test kit. I am using the Nutrafin mini master, I don't know if that's available in the UK! As long as you're getting a liquid test kit, the one with the bottles and test tubes, you'll be glad to have one of your own!!!

I'm glad you'll be looking into improving your stocking!