Fin nippers!

[Whisper Odinsky]

I have 2 Angelfish, one is white, one is black and silver. both the size of a loonie (a bit bigger then a quarter). Only the white one is getting fin-nipped.
I noticed my little daino's are nipped too, which is weird since they swim faster then

.
In my tank, i have serpae (sp?) tetra's, a male betta, 2 blue big gouromis, head and tail light tetras the ugly old algae thing, and some catfish bottomfeeders that dont come out at all (i hope they are still there...) so i am wondering who can be the culprit. please tell me it is the gouromis so i can give them to the fish store and get some nice other fishies.

thankyou in advance for being kind to the newbie.

 

[Kossy]

For Starters Bettas shoud NEVER I repeat NEVER be in a tank with angels. The betta wouldn't attack the danio because it doens't in my tank but remove the male immediately. Good LUCK!!!!

 

[Whisper Odinsky]

oh come on now.. i need a reason to get rid of these gouromis thingy's. The betta only puffs out to chase around the biggest serpae tetra. I havent even seen him go near the angels (nor did that fish guy at the store tell me it was a bad idea .. he said

and that it was no issue... oh maaaaan)
oiy. ok. so the betta is the fin nipper? oiy.
ok then- any word on the dainos?

 

[mrV]

Fin nippers!, now, which one did this? -> Serpaetetra, Hyphessobrycon serpae.

 

[Alien Anna]

Fin nippers!, now, which one did this? -> Serpaetetra, Hyphessobrycon serpae.

My money's on the "ugly old algae thing" - I have this horror of Chinese Algae Eaters (aka "sucking loaches") since a couple nearer devastated my tank a while back.

However, the whole tank sounds like rather a nightmare to me, to be honest. The betta is at severe risk of being torn to shred by the tetras and angels, if nothing else.

 

[The_Budmaster]

if it is a Chinese Algae Eater then it's most likely the one who's causing the problems, our Algae eater attacks everything bigger than a tetra & thats why he's now in our Tetra/Harlequin tank

 

[CFC]

My monies on the serpae tetras,nasty little things that should only be kept in a tank with a shoal of themselves IMO.If it were a CAE then there would be scale damage on the sides of the fish not torn fins.
With bettas and angelfish it is usually the angelfish who are the victims,bettas arent the most inteligent fish in the world and confuse almost any fish with long finnage for being other male bettas.

 

[Liz05]

A word of warning with your gourami's and betta .... my gouramis killed my betta. Well, they helped. Maybe the tetras are nipping?

 

[Whisper Odinsky]

Eeeegawd i had no idea!

alright.

The gouromis came with the tank (tank was given to me from some folks moving to the states) and are very big. They used to just sit together, minding their own business. also in the tank, was a lone serpae, those catfish bottom feeder things, and that CAE that i really need gone. the CAE is 8 inches long. (i need to rid of him because the last time i had a tank, an algae eater got rather long and cracked the side of my tank)
We added the other fishies later on. -once we added the fishes, the gouromis now are doing interesting things- one is on one side of the tank, and the 2nd one is on the other side- like referees almost?!
My betta hangs out with the gouromis., does he think he is one of them?
to update you kind folk, The gouromis will be sold, because they are doing some reeeeeeal weird things, and that CAE is leaving too, because he attacks the thermometer and the gouromis (he hangs off the side of the gouromis...)

so if i move the betta and the serpae's, everything is ok?

 

[Alien Anna]

[

To try to answer your questions, best I can:

1. Yes, the betta does think he and the gouramis are the same species, which is why they will regard each other as competition and even kill each other for territory. Even if they don't directly kill each other, the stress of being in each others company could well cause them to sicken and die.

Gouramis and bettas are all highly territorial and apart from a mated pairs, you need a big tank with plenty of hiding spaces to keep more than one. If you want to keep one gourami, or a m-f pair, they'd be ideal tankmates for the tetras. I don't know about gouramis with angelfish - I've never known anyone keep them together so you'd have to get advice.

2. Bettas shouldn't be kept with tetras as a rule because the tetras regard his fins as some kind of lure, and will bite him to shreds. Today I bought a "rescued" betta who'd been kept in a tank with tetras. He's a little raggedy but fortunately the LFS owner moved him into a safer tank in time. The only exception to that that I know of are black neon tetras, who seem rather un-tetra-like in their behaviour. Probably because they're baby piranhas (joke!).

3. Bettas and angelfish are totally incompatible.

4. If you could identify the species of catfish you've got, that would help a lot. If it's a big pleco you could develop problems later on as he grows. As a species, most plecos are fine with angelfish, gouramis, bettas or tetras.

5. IMHO, you should get rid of the CAE ASAP. I'm told they're fine in a tank on their own, with a few dither fish and have great personality. I disagree.

You've basically got the contents of several tanks there. Here are some ideas, but they rather depend on the size of your tank (remember the 1 inch per gallon rule - except that angels need more and deeper):

2 angelfish
danios
head-and-tailight tetras
serpae tetras
small pleco or pair of dwarf plecos
?gouramis (check out compatibility with angels - try the cichlid forum).

To that you could add a school of corys if you have room, but don't add any more dither fish. If you want more fish, increase numbers in the schools you already have, rather than buying more species.

The betta could be housed either on his own in a small tank, or in a 10 gal with some danios, rasboras, corys, otos, or cherry barbs (but definitely not tiger barbs), or anything small and gentle.

P.S. I'm not surprised your "cats" never come out - I think the only thing that could make it worse for them is if you bought a red tailed shark and a school of tiger barbs!

 

[Whisper Odinsky]

you (and everyone) have my eternal thankyous.
No sooner had i made the post above, then did i go check on my fish (paranoid suspicions finally kick in.) And i know you're all gonna be thinking "oiy silly, i told you so" but the one angelfish i couldnot find. after heading to the other side of the tank, the algae eater moved, and right underneath him was a battered body of one of the angelfish. (that wasnot being nipped at, the nipped one is still around)

I had been told from a friend, some warning about the fish i had in there, and boy oh boy.....i didnt think it was going to be this bad....uggh.
alright. Here is the best picture i have of one of those cats. - you can't see the face of him, but he's got those whiskers.
Every pet store i called, they offered to take the gouromis but i just need to get a net big enough.. and bags to put them in. I do not know how on earth i will go capture this nasty thing.
so basically, once the gouromis and algae thing is out of the picture, and i need to get that betta out, then what?

 

[Alien Anna]

Hi Whisper,
I sense your frustration but also that you're learning a lot, so be comforted by the fact that my "vast" knowledge is due to the huge number of mistakes I made in my first week, let alone the succeeding months!

I also made the CAE mistake. Plus I had a red tailed shark in there and 4 gouramis, just to complete the picture! Boy, did I learn fast!

The cat is a kind of cory. I'm not an expert on cory catfish, but I know one when I see it. They're schooling fish, so you're going to need a few more to keep him happy. Poor thing's probably quaking in his scales at the moment - oh wait, he hasn't got scales. Well, you know what I mean.

CAEs are devils to capture, so take out everything from the tank that you can, except the fish. Next, put a jar in the tank with a Hikari algae wafer in it (irresistable to most fish, particularly algae eaters). Turn the lights off, close the curtains and stand by. If you catch the CAE with something else, don't worry - the something else will be easy enough to put back afterwards. When you capture it, block the front of the jar with your net, but be prepared to move like lightning - think Jackie Chan!

The gouramis should be a doddle to capture and they are very popular fish so no doubt someone will buy them happily.

When you go to the LFS with your fish get yourself a small tank or bowl. The betta can live in there temporarily. I usually put a few garden pebbles, an earthenware flower pot and a ghastly plastic plant in - it doesn't have to be expensive stuff just to keep a fish happy. Also get a small sponge filter (any type as long as it's cheap). I'm assuming you have an air-pump - you might need a 2-way gang if you want to run the betta's filter and an air-stone in your main tank at the same time. If you haven't got one, I recommend buying a 2nd hand one on Ebay, although they aren't expensive if you get a basic model. The betta tank can double as a hospital tank for future use.

That is assuming you aren't made of money at the moment. As long as your house is warm, a betta will be OK without a heater, but do get a themometer to keep an eye on it. Alternatively, go the whole hog and buy a little thermo-filter all-in-one unit. More expensive, but great if you want a more permenant betta set-up. Have a look in your LFS for any "starter tank" deals.

You now own two tanks. You now officially have the fishkeepers disease - Expanding Tank Syndrome.

 

[Whisper Odinsky]

Friend, you rock.
now these cory folk that you speech of, these are the things that waddle along the rocks and stuff, right? they sit underneath clam shells and under rocks all day long.
one is super fat and the other is much smaller. are they supposed to swim?

because they don't- unless my feline cat Whisper try's to give them a heart attack.
To everyone here, Thanks a ton. you have saved me such grief. (just you wait, i have many more questions now.)