Filter For 50-60 Usg Tank + 5 Usg Hospital Tank

[Miles_hot]

I will be buying my 59-60 USG main tank this week and think that I've selected the Eheim Pro 3 2075 filter for it (will also be running an Hydor 300w heater) however I have got myself in a confused state abou tank turnover etc.... I know that you need at least x5 turnover for fish and up to x10 for planting however what value do I take to calculate this? Do I take the manufacture's figure (1250 L) for this or do I need to reduce this by 30% as sellers overstate their outputs?

The long and short of if it am I buying the right sized filter for this? I'm assuming that it will be happy with a heater in line with the output of course!

For the hospital tank I want something which will be compatible with the filter media in the Eheim and I'm a little conflicted as to internal or external. The internal seems to have the advantage that I can put the tank away and it will all be self contained, indeed could be plugged in anywhere, which is very attractive. I can't think of any reason why an external would be better...

Do you have any suggestions for a good filter (and heater) for my hospital / quarantine tank?

many thanks

Miles

 

[KittyKat]

I run the Eheim 3e 2076 on a 215 planted aquarium and on a Malawi without problems. It would definitely be the filter I would recommend.

I will be buying my 59-60 USG main tank this week and think that I've selected the Eheim Pro 3 2075 filter for it (will also be running an Hydor 300w heater) however I have got myself in a confused state abou tank turnover etc.... I know that you need at least x5 turnover for fish and up to x10 for planting however what value do I take to calculate this? Do I take the manufacture's figure (1250 L) for this or do I need to reduce this by 30% as sellers overstate their outputs?

So, how do you know at least 5× for fish and 10× for plants? I have kept both with success in much lower flow rates.

The long and short of if it am I buying the right sized filter for this? I'm assuming that it will be happy with a heater in line with the output of course!

If you are sure that you want that flow rate (so don't plan to keep fish which require slow flow, but do plan to keep active fish who require much flow), then it sounds fine.

For the hospital tank I want something which will be compatible with the filter media in the Eheim and I'm a little conflicted as to internal or external. The internal seems to have the advantage that I can put the tank away and it will all be self contained, indeed could be plugged in anywhere, which is very attractive. I can't think of any reason why an external would be better...

Do you have any suggestions for a good filter (and heater) for my hospital / quarantine tank?

I use Eheim's Substrat as my filter media, and it will fit into many internal filters which force water to pass through bottom to top. I use Elite's mini internal filters for small/hospital/quarantine aquariums, there I use only bio-media and no sponges. I do this because I will happily do regular water changes to remove any crap manually so do not need to rely on the filter to do that.

As for heaters, I use NeWatt in the small tanks as those things are virtually indestructible.

 

[Miles_hot]

I run the Eheim 3e 2076 on a 215 planted aquarium and on a Malawi without problems. It would definitely be the filter I would recommend.

I will be buying my 59-60 USG main tank this week and think that I've selected the Eheim Pro 3 2075 filter for it (will also be running an Hydor 300w heater) however I have got myself in a confused state abou tank turnover etc.... I know that you need at least x5 turnover for fish and up to x10 for planting however what value do I take to calculate this? Do I take the manufacture's figure (1250 L) for this or do I need to reduce this by 30% as sellers overstate their outputs?

So, how do you know at least 5× for fish and 10× for plants? I have kept both with success in much lower flow rates.

The long and short of if it am I buying the right sized filter for this?

I'm assuming that it will be happy with a heater in line with the output of course!

If you are sure that you want that flow rate (so don't plan to keep fish which require slow flow, but do plan to keep active fish who require much flow), then it sounds fine.

For the hospital tank I want something which will be compatible with the filter media in the Eheim and I'm a little conflicted as to internal or external. The internal seems to have the advantage that I can put the tank away and it will all be self contained, indeed could be plugged in anywhere, which is very attractive. I can't think of any reason why an external would be better...

Do you have any suggestions for a good filter (and heater) for my hospital / quarantine tank?

I use Eheim's Substrat as my filter media, and it will fit into many internal filters which force water to pass through bottom to top. I use Elite's mini internal filters for small/hospital/quarantine aquariums, there I use only bio-media and no sponges. I do this because I will happily do regular water changes to remove any crap manually so do not need to rely on the filter to do that.

As for heaters, I use NeWatt in the small tanks as those things are virtually indestructible.

Kitty Kat
Thanks for the rapid reply.
Do you have anything in line with the 3e filter? I ask as I've seen many reports that this caused issues with the flow rate and the priming function which really put me off the 3e - which is a shame as I love the tech aspects of that filter

I got the x5 and x10 figures from this forum (granted the x10 from the planted section) - I think the x5 came from one of the beginners primers. At the moment I am not even thinking about which fish to put in the tank - we're a long way away from those decisions however we have been around the LFS and love the little shoaling fish as well as some of the pretty "bigger" fish (forgive the lack of names here!). I have to admit that I didn't know that some prefer slower water etc - I'd formed the impression that the key thing was to get good flow all around the tank and that the turnover level requriements were down to water quality rather than water speed. Oh there's so much to learn!

When you're using the bio media on your small elilte filters I assume that you're taking this from some other cycled tank or do you have so many fish that the QT / hospital tank is in nearly constent use? Further assumptions: that "bio media" = where the bacteria live rather than some trade name!

Thanks for the tip on the heaters.

Miles

 

[KittyKat]

I got the x5 and x10 figures from this forum (granted the x10 from the planted section) - I think the x5 came from one of the beginners primers. At the moment I am not even thinking about which fish to put in the tank - we're a long way away from those decisions however we have been around the LFS and love the little shoaling fish as well as some of the pretty "bigger" fish (forgive the lack of names here!). I have to admit that I didn't know that some prefer slower water etc - I'd formed the impression that the key thing was to get good flow all around the tank and that the turnover level requriements were down to water quality rather than water speed. Oh there's so much to learn!

The figures are just suggestions, that's actually another reason I like the 3e: the flow rate is adjustable! Although Eheim do not give the low flow rates, I estimate my filters which are 1700 lph at most do about 900 lph on the lowest setting.
Yes, it is important to make sure there are no dead spots in the tank (another reason I like the Eheims: it will automatically set one flow rate for daytime and for night another, so that there are no dead spots), but this can be achieved by good placement out outlet and inlet of the filter, not only by high flow rate.
I actually find that it's usually a better idea to decide on fish before equipment and build up the tank around them.. most 5+ cm schooling fish and 10-15cm cichlids are not picky, so it's an easy choice for you

When you're using the bio media on your small elilte filters I assume that you're taking this from some other cycled tank or do you have so many fish that the QT / hospital tank is in nearly constent use? Further assumptions: that "bio media" = where the bacteria live rather than some trade name!

Yes, I take it out of the Eheim externals when I need it.
But also, most of the time I am using the tanks as grow-out for fry when not as quarantine or hospital.
Yes, bio media is where bacteria live.. I try not to use trade names as it often doesn't matter who anything is made by. But as you mention.. I use Fluval's porous noodles and Eheim's Substrat.

 

[Miles_hot]

KK
Do you have an in line or in tank heater? (just going back to the 3e concern bit)?
Thanks
Miles

 

[KittyKat]

Do you have an in line or in tank heater? (just going back to the 3e concern bit)?

I only use tank heaters, I never run anything in-line.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have a pair of Hydor inlines hooked to my Eheim Pro IIs. They have been up and running for something in the range of 5-7 years and they work great. One is on the output side of the canister which is what is recommended, the other I was forced to hook it to the input side and was a tad nervous about using this configuration, but it has worked out OK.

There is really no need for a hospital tank to be cycled. Firstly, it is normally only used for a short period of time and every other day water changes and daily vacuuming will keep it safe for the fish. Second, many of the meds one may have to use will kill the good bacteria making the filter useless anyhow. Third, if one fails to diagnose properly or even if one does, the fish may die before its cured. This means the disease may not have been eliminated and everything in the tank will still be contaminated by it. Fourth, one often needs to be able to minitor food consumption and if and what a fish may be pooping out. This is a lot easier if there is no active filter removing these things.

An H tank needs heat and minimal flow that can be produced from an airstone. It is my practice when i am done with a temporary H tank to completely sterilize it and everything in it using a strong bleach soak. Sponges in particular will degrade from this and anything else living should also be killed- i.e. any good bacteria.

I have also tended to add some plastic plants or rocks to an H tank in order to make the fish feel a bit safer and thus less stressed. These can both withstand the bleaching sterilizing they may need.

 

[Miles_hot]

TTA - is this approach also true for a QT tank?
Thanks
Miles

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The issue becomes a bit more complicated with a Q tank. Usually a hospital tank will not run for any extended period as the fish will either begin to recover or else it is likely to die. So in many cases an H tank will only be in use for a couple of weeks to a month before the issue is resolved.

For Q tanks many folks operate under a rule of thumb that fish must be healthy and symptom free for at least a month and many folks may want to go even longer. Yhis means if treatment is needed that the Q period starts over when the fish have been cured- i.e. they must be symptom free for a month after the treatment has succeeded.

Moreover, it is common to buy a number of fish at one time. Thus a Q tank may house many fish for some time vs an H holding one or two for shorter time periods.

My tendency has been to use a cycled tank and hope for the best bearing in mind that one may end up with an uncycled and possibly contaminated tank. One risks losing media, live plants, real wood etc. if they become contaminated due to really sick fish dying in it. There is simply no way to know.

IMO, the best approach, if you have spare tank and space for it you can keep it cycled try it that way. You can keep cheap fish in to hold the cycle and take them out for Q fish or else dose ammonia to hold the cycle until you need it. But to make this work you also need to make the effort to buy healthy stock. This can often mean that the cheapest source is normal not the best. I have a saying: One healthy fish is worth at least 3 DOA (or dead) ones.

The simplest way to explain whether to use a cycled or uncycled tank for Q is the better the chances that new fish might arrive with parasites, infections etc., the more likely it is that an H type tank makes the most sense. However, if you know the source well and have reasonable belief the fish are healthy, then go with a cycled Q tank.

 

[Miles_hot]

TTA

Thanks for the thorough reply - as I am in the process of buying my first tank the smaller tank will be most used as the QT tank as I gradually increase stock and add plants etc - I'm assuming I should add things gradually once the tank is cycled and not add a full load at once? I'm also assuming that it will take about the same time to cycle a 5 USG tank as a 50 USG tank or is the dumb thinking?

Where would I go for a "home medical reference" for fish to know if they're sick and what to do about it?

Miles

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I'm assuming I should add things gradually once the tank is cycled and not add a full load at once?

If you are doing a fishless cycle, and have done it properly, one of the true benefits is it allows one to stock a tank fully right away. If one does not do so, then you must revert to stocking just as you would for a fishy cycling- ie gradually.

I'm also assuming that it will take about the same time to cycle a 5 USG tank as a 50 USG tank or is the dumb thinking?"

No this is not really the case. It takes more bacteria to handle the bio-load a 100 gal tank than in a 5 gal because

The cycling process normally takes anywhere from 2-6 weeks. At temperatures below 70F, it takes even longer to cycle a tank. In comparison to other types of bacteria, nitrifying bacteria grow slowly. Under optimal conditions, it takes fully 15 hours for a colony to double in size!

From FINS

Where would I go for a "home medical reference" for fish to know if they're sick and what to do about it?

Fish disease diagnosis can be hard to do and choosing appropriate treatments even more so. Your best bet is to find a really experienced fishkeeper with lots of disease experience, but that is easier said than done. Online resources abound but few are all inclusive, few have pictures and then many diagnosis require a microscope and taking scrapings etc. etc.
Here are a few I have used
Fishdoc.co.uk
Animal-World > Freshwater Fish > Fish Disease and Treatment
Pandora's Fish palace disease section