Figure 8 Questions...

[Whitester]

I am looking into getting F8 puffers. I currently have a 4ft, 60 gallon tank. I have been trying to decide if I want to get figure 8 puffers. I have been doing alot of reading about them. My LFS keeps their F8 puffers in fresh water, and tells me they will do fine in fresh water. The LFS also tells me that F8 puffers live in fresh water in the wild. I have also come across some internet fish sites that say F8's can live in fresh water and are found in the wild in fresh water. On the other hand, I have also found a few websites that state the F8 puffer should be kept in brackish water. What info am I supposed to follow? What would be the difference if I kept F8's in fresh or brackish water. Meaning what effects on the puffer will happen? Will the puffer suffer in fresh water? I don't want to make a brackish tank. Can some one here please help me.

Also, what stocking can I have? How many males to females? I know the tank will have to be heavily planted. In a 60 gallon tank, 4 ft long, how many puffers can it accomidate?

Thanks!

 

[mixmaster jay]

im not too sure on this but i know if a brackish fish is kept in freshwater it can suffer from liver and kidney failier but ive been told they will be fine in fresh and ive read alot and 98% of it says they are fresh or will be fine in fresh


i dont know about the stocking of them maybe 5/6 more female than male but don't quote me on that

 

[Davo86]

Yes in the wild Figure8s are often found in freshwater however under aquaria conditions if kept in freshwater longterm they seem to easily become sick and die. Under brackish conditions however Figure8s seem to thrive and their longterm health is much much better,

I think the general rule for Figure8s is around 15G per puffer.

Ultimately I think your best resource for information on this species is Neil Monks who is a renowned expert in this field and also happens to be a member on this forum

 

[lilacamy931]

hello!

F8s from what I have read will generally have a much longer lived lifestyle in brackish, most the LFS near me keep them in fresh and all the poor things have whitespot (not sure if coincidence or not but still)


This is copied and pasted from another site:
Common Name: Figure Eight Puffer

Other Common Names: F8 Puffer; Eyespot Puffer

Family: Tetraodontidae

Distribution: S.E. Asia & India: Asia: Indochina, Malaysia and Indonesia. Brackish estuaries and streams

Water Parameters: Low-end brackish water (SG = 1.005 - 1.008); Temp:24-28C (76-84F) ; pH: 7.8-8.3

Personality/Temperament: Somewhat agressive, although less likely to predate tankmates than T. Nigroviridis. An active fin nipper that hunts for food.

Max. Size: 3 inches (8 cm)

Estimated Lifespan: 15 years

Sexual Dimorphism: Unknown. Cannot tell genders apart by eye.

Diet: Feed a varied diet of mollusks and crustaceans. Hard-shelled food is important to prevent beak overgrowth. Feeding and Diet article

Care: Despite other reports to the contrary, this species requires brackish water for good health. Introduce to a fully cycled aquarium, and maintain and a low-to-medium salinity. Strong filtration is recommended. A tank size of 15 gallons for one Figure 8 and

Breeding: While reports do exist of breeding in aquaria, it has not been properly documented and is extremely unlikely.

Minimum Tank Size: 15 US Gallons (50 liters)


I dont think there is a way to tell females and males apart it is a case of having them grow up together from young and hope they get on (as all puffs are pretty tempramental).
There are some experts on here (Neale to mention one ) in the region of pufferdom, who will be able to clarify what is the best set up. You can always get them fresh to fresh in you tank and slowly raise the salinity over the weeks/months till a good low brackish which also will not crash your biofilter.

With 60 (US?) gallons would guess 4/5 by that 15g per puff equation..

 

[nmonks]

Thanks for the promo Davo86!

But jokes aside, yes, figure-8s should definitely be kept in brackish water. Precisely why they were thought to be freshwater fish is unclear, but one explanation is confusion between two different species, Tetraodon biocellatus, which is the figure-8 puffer, and Tetraodon palembangensis, a name often used in books until quite recently, but actually an entirely different, truly freshwater, pufferfish. Possibly accurate information about the second species -- that it comes from freshwater conditions -- got applied to the first species by mistake.

Alternatively, it may be this pufferfish simply requires different conditions in the aquarium compared to the wild. This is not unusual; mollies and bumblebee gobies are both freshwater fish in the wild, yet do better in brackish water under aquarium conditions. Marine aquarium salt contains carbonate hardness that stabilises pH, while salt detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, so perhaps it's these things that make them healthier when maintained in an aquarium.

There is a review of their basic care on my FAQ, as well as more detailed accounts on these fish in my book as well as two Aqualog books, one on brackish water fish (by Frank Schaefer) and the other on pufferfish (by Klaus Ebert). In short, all modern aquarium books agree that this species needs slightly brackish water -- between SG 1.003 to 1.008 at 25 degrees C -- to do well in the long term.

Like most of Tetraodon species, figure-8s are feisty, presumably because males defend territories and eventually their broods. That said, in groups of six or more, bullying would be minimal, and in a 60-gallon tank keeping six specimens wouldn't be at all difficult. In smaller groups bullying might be more of a risk. So far as I know, there is no way to tell males and females apart save perhaps behaviour once sexually mature.

Cheers, Neale

Ultimately I think your best resource for information on this species is Neil Monks who is a renowned expert in this field and also happens to be a member on this forum

 

[dave_oddballs]

i agree that generally f8 puffers are best kept in fresh water set ups, i wouldn't say that they will only live out a long and fulfilled life in brackish water. i have had my figure eight for 8 years now and think it was well over a year old when i got it, it was about 2 inch, maxed at just over 3 inch now, pure white belly, really gready, always eating cockles, lance fish, loves blood worm and prawns! it has always been on its own as it killed the only attempt at introducing a friend!
so, almost 10 years, in fresh water, with more community fish than you could imagine, perfect health. good enough for me!

 

[jennybugs]

...with more community fish than you could imagine...

It killed another F8 but lives/d with community fish? That's interesting. What size tank is it in?

I keep a pair with bbgs in a 14L tank with fluctuating fresh to 1.005SG water changes. The tank SG is approx 1.003-1.005 most of the time and they're really well. I hope mine live as long as yours, Dave

For the record, I can thoroughly recommend Neale's book about brackish water fishes

 

[dave_oddballs]

yeah it did kill another f8 and does live fine with other fish!
its not uncommon for certain fish species to have extremely low tolerance for its own species and very high tolerance towards others, nearly 10 years, not 1 problem, is that not enough evidence it is fine?
i have other fish that have tried to kill its own species but is fine with others like my snakehead.
anyways, yes they are meant to be in low end brackish set ups, and i am not about to reccomend anyone chuck one into a community set up, just my personal experience!
Dave

 

[Whitester]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate everyones input.