Fighting Cichlids, They're Gonna Kill Each Other..

[Carp4U]

Hi

This is posted in here because I don't know what subforum these cichlids will come under. I have 2 Jack Dempsey cichlids, both about 3 inches long (don't know gender) in my 21 gallon. I know they're too big, but I've had them about 5 months and they've been getting on fine. I was given them by somebody getting rid of his tank. They have been harmless to each other and the other fish, then tonight I noticed the slightly bigger one bit the smaller one in the lip and there was a lot of struggling and aggression. It looked like a 'kiss' but they were gripped onto each other and squirming around, the big one overpowering the small one. It looked like they were fighting, but the smaller one is looking very stressed. They only parted after I put my net in there, but they keep coming back and doing it again.

There doesn't seem to be any chasing, but I don't know whether this is breeding or aggression. This has literally only just started tonight and I'm scared I'll wake up in the morning and find one dead, they've always seemed so peaceful.

 

[scaeriefaerie666]

Lip locking is a fairly normal part of cichlid life unfortunately, and it is incredibly unnerving to watch when you don't know what it is. It is a sign for a struggle for dominance - not a mating ritual. As you say they are realistically too big and as such it may well be symptomatic of them needing more territories.
It is incredibly important with cichlids to know what gender they are, and it isn't too difficult to tell. I'm not familiar with the procedure on how to sex Dempseys, but if you go to the cichlid section of the forum they will be able to sex them for you there. If you have two males (which is what i suspect) you have a problem. Unless one of them establishes dominance (which may well result in injury of the submissive), they will continue to do this, stressing themselves out, until they do irrepairable damage or die.
My suggestion is to sex them ASAP. If you have two males you either need to get a much bigger tank, or you should realistically look at rehoming one. If you have a male and a female it may just be that they are incompatible, and as such again rehoming seems like the most viable option. Cichlids are infamous for being aukward in pairing and companionship, and they are incredibly unpredictable.
Either way, lip-locking is a very clear sign that they aren't happy with eachother, and its something you are right to have asked for help for.
xxx

 

[Carp4U]

Lip locking is a fairly normal part of cichlid life unfortunately, and it is incredibly unnerving to watch when you don't know what it is. It is a sign for a struggle for dominance - not a mating ritual. As you say they are realistically too big and as such it may well be symptomatic of them needing more territories.
It is incredibly important with cichlids to know what gender they are, and it isn't too difficult to tell. I'm not familiar with the procedure on how to sex Dempseys, but if you go to the cichlid section of the forum they will be able to sex them for you there. If you have two males (which is what i suspect) you have a problem. Unless one of them establishes dominance (which may well result in injury of the submissive), they will continue to do this, stressing themselves out, until they do irrepairable damage or die.
My suggestion is to sex them ASAP. If you have two males you either need to get a much bigger tank, or you should realistically look at rehoming one. If you have a male and a female it may just be that they are incompatible, and as such again rehoming seems like the most viable option. Cichlids are infamous for being aukward in pairing and companionship, and they are incredibly unpredictable.
Either way, lip-locking is a very clear sign that they aren't happy with eachother, and its something you are right to have asked for help for.
xxx

Thanks for the advice- I won't be able to sex them until I get back from school tomorrow night- will they be ok until then? What can I do until then?

 

[Tolak]

Buy or make a divider. Lip locking is part of pairing as well as territorial aggression, if they seem to play nice then lip lock on occasion it is more than likely pairing. If the lip lock & can't stand the sight of each other when battling it's probably territorial.

 

[scaeriefaerie666]

if you have a breeding trap you can move one into there for the night to keep them protected, alternatively, arrange the ornaments and plants etc in the tank to clearly divide it into two halves. Hopefully they will take one half each as a territory and that will limit aggression. Though as i said, Cichlids are incredibly unpredictable.
If you really don't think it will work (as they would need about 21gallons of tank EACH for territory) then if you have an isolation tank i suggest employing it.
However, this being said, cichlids are tough cookies and if you have only noticed them doing it today then i think they'll be ok til tomorrow... it depends how violent they are.
This is what i have found on the internet regarding sexing:
Sexing Information: Sexing Jack Dempsey's is somewhat easy by appearance. Males are large and have more pointed anal fins. They have little or no blue on the gill plates while females have a good deal of blue pattern. The body of a female will have less color than a male.

Have a look and see what you make of it, though i still recommend taking pictures and getting the people on the cichlid board to have a proper look for you.
xxx

 

[Carp4U]

They both have lots of bright blue on the gills, but one of them is generally less blue (a bit smaller), a bit more grey and tends to be the one who's being chased and lip-locked. They sometimes can stand the sight of each other, but not for long. At the moment, it's just chasing each other until one of them retreats behind a filter for a while, then when they come out again it starts again. When I think about it, the chasing has happened occasionally in the past, but this is the first time I've seen lip-locking, when I first saw it from a distance I thought they were eating each other!

But yeah I'll try and get some pics... the divider won't work because I am going to bed soon, and won't get time tomorrow to get one. I am already looking at rehoming one of them.

Thanks guys

 

[Carp4U]

I've rehomed the smaller one- my dad has a similar sized tank with peaceful but large fish and no cichlids. The bigger one (more aggressive) one has stayed in my tank and seems to have calmed down now he's on his own.

I must say I felt really bad taking a fish away from the 5 fish it's been with for years and years, this sounds ridiculous I know, because fish aren't the same as dogs and cats. I felt it was the best thing to do for the fishs welfare, despite it being so beautiful and peaceful. I still get a bit sad giving fish away, especially when they're on their own. It's just cichlids need a good home and a good partner.

Did I do the right thing?

 

[scaeriefaerie666]

Im almost positive you did.
If you're worried that your cichlid is lonely or is behaving erratically looking for companionship you can always buy a definate female and hope for the best - but not until you have a bigger tank. He won't mind being on his own, in fact if he has a tank to himself as he's the only territorial one then he'll be much happier and you should see an improvement in his temperament.
I would have done exactly the same thing in your situation, and have had to before.
I had a siamese fighter that was getting attacked by every other fish in my tank (and they weren't fin nippers) but they were just eating him alive. In the end i rehomed him. It nearly broke my heart but he was much better for it. You've just got to remind yourself you did it for the fish.
xxx