Fighting Blue Gouramis

[TotallyTropical]

Before I start, yes, my stocking idea was doomed from the start. I have gained a lot of experience in the short time I have had my new tank, and realize my mistakes.
My tank has finally settled in as much as possible, and of course, the pair of blue gouramis I got were both male. They're generally peaceful whenever I'm around, but I've found out that if they don't notice me, they fight rather viciously. I know I have to at least rehome one of them (which I'm willing to do), but this now brings concern to the rest of the gouramis in my tank.
They all seem rather stressed, and I might have to rehome the other blue gourami as well as one of my snakeskins, since I have a male & female pair of gold gouramis, and I'm concerned the male will fight with the blue gourami (or the other way around). The snakeskin, on the other hand, is smaller than the more dominant snakeskin that is around 7-8" long, and seems to have nips taken out of his tail. I haven't seen them fighting as much or as intensely as the blues, but I know it's causing a lot of trouble.
Should I rehome both of the blue gouramis and one of the snakeskins, or just the blue?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Chad]

How big is the tank? I've been successful in reducing aggression by creating territorial zones. But this can only be done if the tank is a bit on the larger side. If you are having a smaller tank then I would suggest re-homing both. 

 

[RainboWBacoN420]

I was dealing with the same problem but with pearl gouramis, except they were male and female. Had to go out on a whim and separate them by putting the male in the main tank and leaving the female in the quarantine. Hopefully I can get some more plants or driftwood for more hiding places before I drop the female in.
Gouramis can be vicious critters... 

 

[Byron]

The tank size as others have noted is going to be crucial here.  You have several issues or possible (depending upon tank size) issues.
 
First, the snakeskin gourami, Trichopodus pectoralis.  This is a large fish, reaching close to 12 inches (30 cm).  A 4-foot tank is mandatory.  But moving on from the tank size, this is a rather peaceful gourami for such a large one, and I understand that males are not quite as territorial as other species [I'll return to this momentarily].  So the territorial battles will likely be started by the other species, but this one being fairly peaceful means it may get the worst of the squabbles.  You mention nips out of one of these...not surprising then.
 
The blue and gold gourami are the same species, Trichopodus trichopterus.  There are several varieties, gold, blue, cosby, 3-spot, opaline--but all are the same species so naturally this means near-identical behaviours.  And this is one where the territorial instincts of the male is strong.  I have heard from other members of even females attacking and killing other fish.  At close to 6 inches, not so large, but definitely more "in your face."  A 3-foot tank is minimum, and I would suggest only one male with a couple females, whether blue or gold.
 
So, to answer your last question, it depends on your tank size which gourami should go.  But they should definitely not be together (the snakeskin, with the blue/gold).  I will just pick up on the suggestion to have plenty of cover/plants to break up the territory space...this is worth doing in some cases, but once a fish, any fish, has exerted its dominance, it is usually game over.  Individual fish can be more likely or less likely to behave according to the norm for a species, but when one has clearly shown it is flexing its muscles, it is not going to reform.  Any attempt to do so by us is frankly cruel to the fish, as it is simply behaving the way it was created.
 
You mention stress, and this is expected with the present fish together, regardless of tank size.  And remember that stress is caused by more than mere physical aggression.  Fish release pheromones and allomones, chemical signals, and these are capable very much of causing severe stress if they are aggressive or threatening in nature.  And we cannot see them, or sense them...we only know they are there because it is an important part of fish communication.  Significant water changes is the only way to remove these, no filter can.
 
Hoe this helps with your decision, but feel free to ask further.
 
Byron.

 

[TotallyTropical]

Ah, I suppose the tank size would help. It is a 75gal long (4ft, I think). I asked about the gold gouramis as well as I was aware that they were in fact the same species, which caused my concern between all of them. I am definitely considering more plants, but I might have to go for plastic plants due to my small budget and current problems with existing plants. I have really grown attached to the larger snakeskin, but I definitely don't want to stress out the whole tank just because I want to keep one fish with me.

 

[TotallyTropical]

The fish have calmed down this week, and I'm wondering if gill flukes were the issue. I have been trying to diagnose it all month, and finally came to the conclusion after one of my older platies died the other day with a very pitted stomach. One day after starting the medication, they calmed down. Would the parasite have caused the aggression, or is it still something behavioral that I should control by removing fish?

 

[Byron]

The fish have calmed down this week, and I'm wondering if gill flukes were the issue. I have been trying to diagnose it all month, and finally came to the conclusion after one of my older platies died the other day with a very pitted stomach. One day after starting the medication, they calmed down. Would the parasite have caused the aggression, or is it still something behavioral that I should control by removing fish?

 
I wouldn't want to hazard a guess on the disease aspect, other than saying disease is adding stress to fish.  But the previous comments I made about the species holds no matter what state they may be in, and for the good of the various fish I would deal with those issues.

 

[TotallyTropical]

I've finally had the blue, gold, and one of the snakeskins removed yesterday, and now the larger snakeskin that I kept is acting much more normally; he seems pretty happy. The only problem is, he is now refusing to eat and circling the tank a bit more. The rest of the fish are eating, and everything seems to check out. Water parameters have been normal, other than a nitrate spike that I quickly found the source of and dealt with. Other than that, nothing seems to be too unusual. Should I just see if he starts eating again, or should I search for some frozen or fresh food to whet his appetite?
 
Edit: Tested the water for good measure.
pH: 8.2 (has been fluctuating due to a pH stabilizer, but I'm never going to use it again; clouded up the whole tank.

  Could be the issue here, though.)
Ammonia: Looks to be at 0ppm. I hope my eyes aren't failing me and my tank is recycling.

Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10-20ppm
 
I can try and do a water change tomorrow if necessary, but I just did one today.

 

[Byron]

I've finally had the blue, gold, and one of the snakeskins removed yesterday, and now the larger snakeskin that I kept is acting much more normally; he seems pretty happy. The only problem is, he is now refusing to eat and circling the tank a bit more. The rest of the fish are eating, and everything seems to check out. Water parameters have been normal, other than a nitrate spike that I quickly found the source of and dealt with. Other than that, nothing seems to be too unusual. Should I just see if he starts eating again, or should I search for some frozen or fresh food to whet his appetite?
 
Edit: Tested the water for good measure.
pH: 8.2 (has been fluctuating due to a pH stabilizer, but I'm never going to use it again; clouded up the whole tank.

  Could be the issue here, though.)
Ammonia: Looks to be at 0ppm. I hope my eyes aren't failing me and my tank is recycling.

Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10-20ppm
 
I can try and do a water change tomorrow if necessary, but I just did one today.

 
I am silent on most disease topics, but spotted something here.  This pH stabilizer...do you mean some sort of pH adjuster?  These chemicals rarely work, and they are irritating at the least and possibly seriously dangerous to fish.  The chemical gets inside the fish (all substances added to the tank water do) and this could be an issue.
 
We can discuss pH issues separately, but depending upon the levels for the GH and KH, you may be unable to mess with the pH aqs they are related, closely.

 

[TotallyTropical]

Yes, it is a pH adjuster. I guess I should have thought it was too good to be true. Should I do a large water change (70 - 75%) to try and remove as much of it as I can and see if that helps?

 

[Byron]

Yes, it is a pH adjuster. I guess I should have thought it was too good to be true. Should I do a large water change (70 - 75%) to try and remove as much of it as I can and see if that helps?

 
Yes.

 

[TotallyTropical]

Alright, just finished the hefty water change. Still a bit cloudy though. I also managed to encourage the snakeskin to eat some bits freeze-dried tubifex worms; obviously not the best meal, but its some food in his stomach for now. I'll see if I can tempt him to eat properly tonight. I'm also hatching some brine shrimp, so maybe live food will make him more eager to eat.

 

[Byron]

Alright, just finished the hefty water change. Still a bit cloudy though. I also managed to encourage the snakeskin to eat some bits freeze-dried tubifex worms; obviously not the best meal, but its some food in his stomach for now. I'll see if I can tempt him to eat properly tonight. I'm also hatching some brine shrimp, so maybe live food will make him more eager to eat.

 
Sounds good, I hope he improves.  Cloudy water after a water change, especially a large one, is normal and no cause for concern.  I find my tanks generally fully clear overnight on water change days.
 
I'll just explain a bit more (you may already know this)...fish are in a very close relationship to their aquatic environment, much more than any land animal.  Any substance added to the water will quickly get inside the fish.  Fish do not "drink" as such, because water is continually passing through the cells via osmosis, and this forms the majority of the fish, getting into the bloodstream, internal organs, etc, as well as throughout all the cells.  Additionally, the gills are being impacted by any substance in the water, and some of these can easily burn the gills.  This is the problem with chlorine for example.  So it is always best to add as little substances to the water as possible, be they water conditioners, plant fertilizers, adjusters, whatever.
 
Byron.

 

[TotallyTropical]

He finally ate some proper food tonight, so I think that calmed him down.
Thank you so much for your help, and explaining all of this to me. I'm always worried when something happens in the tanks, mostly because I know I'm not that experienced and could be doing something that is completely wrong without even realizing it.

 

[Byron]

He finally ate some proper food tonight, so I think that calmed him down.
Thank you so much for your help, and explaining all of this to me. I'm always worried when something happens in the tanks, mostly because I know I'm not that experienced and could be doing something that is completely wrong without even realizing it.

 
Let's hope he's on the road now.  And you've very welcome; most of us have been there, unfortunately for our fish, but fortunately we learn.
 
Byron.