Ferts For Dwarf Baby Tears

[TrickySpot]

Hi Guys,
 
I've laid down tufts of HC all over the bottom of my tank and need to take it to the next level now. 
 
According to this forum, my lighting is on the high end of moderate (low end of high...) and my CO2 system is working away with my JBL CO2 drop test consistently showing around 12 mg/l. I know this is a bit low...just waiting for parts to add more bottles!
 
I have API leaf zone from a previous tank, but it contains Potassium, which I've read somewhere helps algae to grow...I already have quite a lot of algae, I'm trying to keep my lights on as much as possible for the HC. 
 
Can anybody recommend a good fertilizer for HC, its the only plant in the tank at the moment?
 
Thanks!!
 
 
Tank details :
450L Juwel Vision
4 x 54 watt bulbs + reflectors (+- 432 watts)
Normal internal filter
Fluval 406 external canister filter
 
Ammonia around 0.25 ppm
Nitrites - waiting for new test kit
 
Fish for cycling - 5 x zebra danios and 2 x red platys
 
Tank has been cycling for about 14 days

 

[TrickySpot]

Really? Nobody?? Very useful forum!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

First- do you have H. cuba or micranthemoides?
 
Second, why are you doing a fish in cycle? In fact, if you are doing high light, co2 added regularly fertilized tank the way to do it is to plant it, let the plants settle in and do no cycling at all. You just start to stock once the plants have established.
 
And then, you have too much light, imo.
 
But what you really should do is do a whole lot more reading and learning because right now you appear to be experimenting and with no real plan in place. Or at least you have not indicated any sort of plan. It seems to me before one gets a fish or plant that is the time to know if it is right for a tank and what it will take to care for it. What ferts had you planed to use? Will there be any other plants used?
 
And finally, if you do not like this forum your solution is simple, walk away and join another site instead.

 

[TrickySpot]

Title says dwarf baby tears, rest of post says HC. Where does micranthemoides come into it?
 
HC must be one of the highest light demanding plants, I very much doubt there is too much light.
 
Fish are in to cycle filters....plants alone can't cycle filters, ever, unless you are adding fertilizing nitrates in an ammoniacal form.

 

[DrRob]

HC does indeed require a fair amount of light. It's essentially designed as a marginal plant in the real world so it doesn't usually get too much light loss from water depth, meaning that you need light to punch down through whatever depth of water you have to get it to grow, and that's it's not all that tolerant of shading. It also grows very nicely in a bog garden type affair and I've generally had more success growing it emmersed in propogators than I have in the actual tank (I did it to up the quantity, rather than buy a lot more of it, but you do have to accept it converting back to submerged form when you put in in the tank again).
 
The marginal nature also accounts for it's other main demand, which is a lot of CO2. I've not found it all that fertiliser hungry, and in fact have seen it burn back with too much. The main thing with fertilisers is that if you run a tank with lots of light and CO2 then you end up with algae if you don't grow anything, so you need a mass of higher plant forms to keep things under control. Might be why you're struggling as I can't see much else in there from the picture. A few fast growing stems might help balance things out and keep the tank stable while the HC takes properly. Otherwise the biggest CO2 issue with the carpet plants is that if they do well then they tend to start catching debris and slowing their own flow, which then causes them to die back, so flow over the carpet needs to be carefully worked out as it takes.
 
So overall it needs penetrating light, after that it's not, by nature a high light demanding plant, but in a depth of water it needs the punch of power behind the light. It's been easier to grow since LED lighting came out as the lensing/spotlight effect that that lighting form allows has made it easier to get more lighting power to the substrate.
 
As for the cycling thing, there is a system known as silent cycling, where fast growing plants are used to consume the ammonia, allowing the filters to only cope with tiny amounts, as the plants tend to prefer ammonia as a nitrate source to nitrate. It's a neat little trick for easy cycling with fast growing stems and I suspect that it's what TTA was trying to elude to.

 

[TrickySpot]

Thanks Rob, that's really helpful!
 
I wanted to grow the tank in stages, but after being away for a week and leaving the lights in my wife's hands, I came back to an algae jungle. Together with that and my Balas kicking up a storm, I've had to change direction. Balas are going into LFS's display tank (2000L), rest of fish will move to 180L, I'm going to empty this tank and grow them emerged until they form a carpet. The manner they arrived off ebay was the reason I planted them above the surface, they came 'double sided', I couldn't make out which side was roots and which was pure leaves! Having said all this, each bush has doubled in size since the initial photo, but they are picking up debris from the sharks thrashing and aren't as happy as before. I didn't fully understand your flow over the HC comment, should I make sure there is high flow or low flow (assuming water flow?) over them? I see now I'll need to add a fast growing nitrate absorbers to prevent algae, I have an abundance of Anacharis Egeria densa, I hope that'll do the trick?
 
Thanks again for the help!
 
Tricky

 

[DrRob]

They need good flow, otherwise the thick carpet can trap debris (as you've noticed) which also then reduces the access to the fresh CO2 in the water. Better flow keeps the debris clear and also provides a fresh supply of the CO2 that you're carefully adding to the water.
 
Egreria densa is a great nitrate exporter, but it does like it's water on the cooler side, so watch that one.

 

[SO19Firearms]

I see now I'll need to add a fast growing nitrate absorbers to prevent algae

That sounds like you're making a link between Nitrate and algae, there isn't one.
You can certainly grow out a carpeted tank with just Cuba alone.


A small tip with Cuba, although there proly isn't enough hours in the day for a tank that size - separate and plant the chains individually so you essentially make a thin carpet from the start. This allows it to grow in. When you plant islands of them only the outer edges are doing anything much....the inner bits are just getting messy or not growing at all....

 

[TrickySpot]

LOL, I'm actually an astrophysics studier...wish I could do microbiology at the same time
 
From the back of my mind, I have a link between phosphates and algae growth, water changes decrease phosphates, decreases algae.....might also explain to me why the LFS sells phosphate removers.....
 
As said before. the HC came from Ebay, all green and lucious, but with no roots, so I couldn't really tell which side was up! The bushes have sent out runners, but everything has stalled due to the amount of debris my Balas are throwing up. Luckily my LFS is getting them as I'm now convinced NOBODY should own them, except in maybe a 2000L tank (with mirrored sides). Balas are going to new home tomorrow, so I can use my HC bushes to try again...most of them have sprouted roots, so at least I know which way is up. I've heard you bury them until the tops are level with the gravel, is this the right route?? I'm going to take them all out, cut them up into smaller plugs and plant them out, but deeper this time. 
 
Biggest problem at the mo is my 450L tank on the 2nd floor is starting to lean more and more to one side...its a brand new building, and I'm pretty sure I know which way round the joists go, any more leaning and the tank will have to emptied and re-positioned.....
 
TrickySpot

 

[SO19Firearms]

...might also explain to me why the LFS sells phosphate removers....

Nope, they sell them because they're easy money and they don't know any better

Phosphate doesn't cause algae any much more than air causes humans, but decrease the air and you decrease the humans.....

All a planted tank owner needs to know is that sick plants cause algae - So keep them well fed with Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Iron, Copper and anything else a Complete plant food has - Keep the lighting high enough for the plants but low enough for the given amount of CO2 in the tank (get that the wrong way round and the plants will try to grow quicker than the carbon can support and you get sick plants or CO2 related algae....most algae is CO2 related when you feed them enough food.....)


As for the mishmash cuba - plant any bit and keep any other bit above the substrate - They'l work it out

IMO