Feeding Guide?

[xamy_valox]

Hi there,
I am completely new to keeping tropical fish and am a bit unsure as to how often I should be feeding them.
I am currently feeding them a large pinch of King British Tropical Flake Food, and sometimes a small pinch of frozen bloodworm, once every other day. However, whenever I take the lid off the tank to either have a look or put some liquids into the water they are all at the top thinking they are going to be fed!
Are fish always like this and will just always be hungry? Or am I not feeding them enough?
I am reluctant to feed them every day as I am frightened of over feeding them and having them die.
I currently have 2 Platy's, 4 Guppies (and one baby guppy) and one Male Beta.
Can someone please just let me know if I am feeding them correctly?!
Thanks,
Amy.

 

[sparkycufc]

It's all down to practice really. I tend to feed my fish a small amount, then if they finish it really quickly I give them a little more, and so on. Generally if there is any food left after 4 or 5 minutes you are feeding them too much but they should always be 'hungry' in the sense they want food, whenever you go to feed them. If they aren't then you have a problem.

Try experimenting a little with how much and how often you feed them to get to a happy balance, I feed my fish every 24 hours give or take an hour or so but I know that some people only feed every other day. I don't think there is any 'right' way so long as your fish are healthy.

 

[OohFeeshy]

I wouldn't worry- even if I do several feeds in a day the fish still act like they haven't eaten for weeks. Every other day is fine, although maybe a smaller amount each day would be better?

 

[loachman]

It's pretty common behavior for some fish to be "trained" that an open top means food.

You just want to be sure you're not feeding so much there is leftovers after a couple minutes (with the caveat that some bottom feeders feed more slowly) and that you're not feeding so little they're loosing weight (no sunken belly, for example).

 

[dipsydoodlenoodle]

Hi there,
I am completely new to keeping tropical fish and am a bit unsure as to how often I should be feeding them.
I am currently feeding them a large pinch of King British Tropical Flake Food, and sometimes a small pinch of frozen bloodworm, once every other day. However, whenever I take the lid off the tank to either have a look or put some liquids into the water they are all at the top thinking they are going to be fed!
Are fish always like this and will just always be hungry? Or am I not feeding them enough?
I am reluctant to feed them every day as I am frightened of over feeding them and having them die.
I currently have 2 Platy's, 4 Guppies (and one baby guppy) and one Male Beta.
Can someone please just let me know if I am feeding them correctly?!
Thanks,
Amy.

My goldfish follow us around the room "looking" hungry; I wouldn't worry about it. My betta fish who I've only had a week has learnt that me = food; I also have guppies and they seem clueless.

 

[xamy_valox]

Well there is never any food left on the bottom of the tank for any length of time.
By the time I have fed them, and put the lid back on the majority of it has gone!! I have a baby guppy in my tank and it eats so much for its size!
However, I never really see my betta eat, obviously he must do because he would die otherwise, but I never see him eat as much as the others, and I don't think I have ever seen him poop!
He seems happy in himself though and he interacts with me all the time! If I put my face to the glass he comes over to say hello and follows me up and down the tank haha, he's funny.
I think I will keep going as I am then, as everything I have described seems to be normal according to the replies.
Thanks for getting back to me everyone, much appreciated.
Amy xx

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Amy,

It sounds to me like you are doing a good job. I agree with the others in all their comments. With your particular fish I'd say you could feed once a day if you wanted, no more than what they eat in 2 to 3 minutes, using a timer a few times to get a more accurate feel for it. I'd probably not feed the frozen bloodworm quite that often, perhaps only once or on occasion twice a week. Bloodworm is quite rich and sometimes fish can have digestive problems with too much of it.

Fish will always go crazy for food (or with food when you give it to them) provided they've not been overfed previously. You just have to get used to it and consider it normal. They are cold-blooded and often go through periods in the wild where they find only very limited bits of food for days on end. On the other hand, they sometimes can feast on bugs or other high-protein bonanzas! Fish have been found to do ok not being fed for two or three weeks when their keepers are away. Knowing that can make you feel much more comfortable with missing the occasional days here and there and many feel that a random day missed is a good thing for them. Frozen brine shrimp is another occasional food that is even more of a "snack" thing for tropicals, not to be overfed. But variety is indeed good and TFF abounds with interesting advice about various vegatables that can be tried, often with success!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[xamy_valox]

Hi Amy,

It sounds to me like you are doing a good job. I agree with the others in all their comments. With your particular fish I'd say you could feed once a day if you wanted, no more than what they eat in 2 to 3 minutes, using a timer a few times to get a more accurate feel for it. I'd probably not feed the frozen bloodworm quite that often, perhaps only once or on occasion twice a week. Bloodworm is quite rich and sometimes fish can have digestive problems with too much of it.

Fish will always go crazy for food (or with food when you give it to them) provided they've not been overfed previously. You just have to get used to it and consider it normal. They are cold-blooded and often go through periods in the wild where they find only very limited bits of food for days on end. On the other hand, they sometimes can feast on bugs or other high-protein bonanzas! Fish have been found to do ok not being fed for two or three weeks when their keepers are away. Knowing that can make you feel much more comfortable with missing the occasional days here and there and many feel that a random day missed is a good thing for them. Frozen brine shrimp is another occasional food that is even more of a "snack" thing for tropicals, not to be overfed. But variety is indeed good and TFF abounds with interesting advice about various vegatables that can be tried, often with success!

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks waterdrop, thats interesting to know. I think I may cut down on the bloodworm a little then and use it more as just a treat every now and again.
When I bought the tank, I knew it would take a lot of work, but I don't think I realised just how much!

Mind you, so far I've not had any major issues, other than having a little too much ammonia in my tank, which has caused a lot of my platy's to die =[ I think I got a bit over excited and put too many fish in, in a short space of time so my tank is still cycling. Touch wood though, all of my other fish seem to be doing fine other than one of my platy's that I have left, I think because they have been there from the beginning they have aclimatised to the tank being the way it is. However I introduced this platy when the other ones died not knowing what their cause of death was so I'm guessing he's not happy with the water, so I'm treating it with Stress Zyme for the time being to try and help. Hopefully he will pull through, but only time will tell!
Thanks again for all the replies =]
Amy xx

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Amy,

I didn't realize before that you were new to the hobby but now I realize you only had one post in the welcome section. Looking at that I realize now that you are suffering from the typical thing of previously not having had the kinds of good info we hope our beginners will luck in to before starting a tank.

You're having trouble because what you attempted to do just completely misses the most core skill of the hobby, that of the biofilter. The filter systems that come with aquariums are really just a hardware kit. It would be like trying to start using your word processor on a personal computer that had had no operating system or hardware installed. The filter "kit" needs a knowledgeable hobbyist to spend somewhere between 3 weeks and 2 months working on it -prior- to it being able to handle fish! I know you've figured some of this out, so let's move on to what to do now...

You are definately in what I call a Fish-In Cycling Situation. I call it a situation as a reminder that it was not something that need have happened if the info had been there, so its a live and learn thing. In a Fish-In cycle your goal is to be a bit of a detective and figure out the percentage and frequency of water changes (using good technique, more about that later) it takes you to keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) -below- 0.25ppm (the very first color match on many test kits) until you can be back home to test and change water -again!- Its very water changing intensive. Good technique is to use a good conditioner (Seachem Prime is our favorite for beginners) to remove chlorine/chloramines (dosed at, say, 1.5x what it tells you) and rough temperature matching (your hand is good enough for this.) That sentence is quite a mouthful but you can look at it a couple times!

You need a good liquid-reagent based test kit (can't remember if you've said you have this?) Most of us like the API Freshwater Master Test Kit but there are others that will work and even some better. The paper strip tests don't cut it and can mislead.

In most cases with beginners first realizing what a fish-in situation involves they find that they were not diluting the toxins enough or frequently enough. Sometimes beginners have been told that water changes are stressful on the fish, but toxins in the water are much more stressful and take precedence over any minor stress of water changing.

Good luck and let us know how things stand with what I've discussed above,

~~waterdrop~~

 

[xamy_valox]

Hi Amy,

I didn't realize before that you were new to the hobby but now I realize you only had one post in the welcome section. Looking at that I realize now that you are suffering from the typical thing of previously not having had the kinds of good info we hope our beginners will luck in to before starting a tank.

You're having trouble because what you attempted to do just completely misses the most core skill of the hobby, that of the biofilter. The filter systems that come with aquariums are really just a hardware kit. It would be like trying to start using your word processor on a personal computer that had had no operating system or hardware installed. The filter "kit" needs a knowledgeable hobbyist to spend somewhere between 3 weeks and 2 months working on it -prior- to it being able to handle fish! I know you've figured some of this out, so let's move on to what to do now...

You are definately in what I call a Fish-In Cycling Situation. I call it a situation as a reminder that it was not something that need have happened if the info had been there, so its a live and learn thing. In a Fish-In cycle your goal is to be a bit of a detective and figure out the percentage and frequency of water changes (using good technique, more about that later) it takes you to keep both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) -below- 0.25ppm (the very first color match on many test kits) until you can be back home to test and change water -again!- Its very water changing intensive. Good technique is to use a good conditioner (Seachem Prime is our favorite for beginners) to remove chlorine/chloramines (dosed at, say, 1.5x what it tells you) and rough temperature matching (your hand is good enough for this.) That sentence is quite a mouthful but you can look at it a couple times!

You need a good liquid-reagent based test kit (can't remember if you've said you have this?) Most of us like the API Freshwater Master Test Kit but there are others that will work and even some better. The paper strip tests don't cut it and can mislead.

In most cases with beginners first realizing what a fish-in situation involves they find that they were not diluting the toxins enough or frequently enough. Sometimes beginners have been told that water changes are stressful on the fish, but toxins in the water are much more stressful and take precedence over any minor stress of water changing.

Good luck and let us know how things stand with what I've discussed above,

~~waterdrop~~

Hi waterdrop,
Thanks again for all the information you have given me, it's really useful.
When I bought my tank (which is a fluval edge) I went to a local fish shop to get all the necessary advice for newbies, the guy there said that if I filled the tank, added my plants and whatever else I wanted in there along with Stress Coat (which is what I use to get rid of all the chlorine) and Stress Zyme (to help the filter along with good bacteria) and waited 1 or 2 weeks I would be able to put a few fish in there.

I did so, and had my tank running for 2 weeks before adding any fish. I then used 'Tetra 6 in 1 Testing Kit' and all of my levels were fine. I then double checked this at the fish shop and they agreed, the only thing that obviously wasn't there was any ammonia because of not having any fish in there, but he said to go ahead and put some fish in.

I was concerned at first not to put too many fish in, so as not overload the tank too quickly, and my friend was getting rid of a male betta that she no longer could keep so I thought I would start off with him. He was in the tank for a good week and flourishing. (He had previously come from a cold water fish bowl so I think the change in temperature and scenery was a pleasant surprise for him!!) I then decided I would add a few fishy friends for him, so decided on 2 guppies and 2 platys as advised by the fish shop.

Everything was fine until a few days later when my platys started to become inactive (I have posted about this on the 'Welcome' forum) and it was only then that I noticed my testing kit didn't let me know anything bout ammonia! I therefore took a water sample to my fish shop, in which it said my ammonia level was at 1, instead of 0 and so I was advised to put some Stress Zyme in every other day and do water changes of only 10%, which I have been doing. Unfortunately, not long before posting this, another of my paty's died (as I stupidly bought 2 more to keep my remaining one happy) so now I am left with 1 lonely platy, 4 guppies and a baby guppy, and my male beta.

As said before, my other fish are all fine (touch wood) the guppies are active and eating fine, my betta is roaming the tank and making sure everyone knows he is boss, and at the moment my last platy seems to be ok, however, how long this will last I have no idea.

Is there anything else I may be able to do to get my ammonia levels down quicker so I don't lose anymore fish?
Sorry that this post is so long, I'm just after any help I can get.
I wish I knew I could have done a fishless cycle before registering to these forums and I may not have lost my platy's =[
Thanks again for the help.
Amy.

Sorry, just to add to this aswell, when I have done water changes I have been doing roughly 25% and using a thermometer to get the temperature correct! I was scared incase a fluctuation in temperature would damge my fish, so I thought best bet was to get a thermometer.

 

[Anna Robinson]

It's definitely normal for fish to look 'hungry', and healthy adult fish can indeed go for a while without food if otherwise well-fed, but one meal every two days isn't enough for most pet fish to grow well and remain healthy. Most fish in the wild will eat small amounts of food almost constantly, as they find it, and are not adapted to eat one large meal and then fast for two days.

Although hard info is often lacking there has been some scientific research done on pet fish and papers published: for example optimal feeding frequency for swordtails is three meals per day, while optimal frequency for Bettas is two meals a day. The fish nutrition company I consult for published a paper indicating that optimal feeding frequency for goldfish appears to be as much as four times a day. My own observations confirm this: I've seen fish in wholesale facilities fed infrequently (although usually once a day rather than once every other day) and they lose condition.

If you are doing a fish-in cycle you do need to be careful with your feeding (and take on board Waterdrop's advice) but once the tank is established I would never feed less than twice a day.

 

[waterdrop]

Amy, you're doing great! It turns out that minor temperature fluctuations and minor pH changes and the fuss of a water change are all of almost no importance compared to getting the ammonia and nitrite out of their water. When ammonia or nitrite are present they are a trump card over everythng else as far as urgency.

When fish respire by moving water through their gills, they not only give off CO2 but also significant amounts of ammonia as well. Unlike humans who need to conserve water (we have developed a kidney system to get our ammonia out but save more water) the fish can have all the water they need whenver its needed. So they just dump the ammonia directly. In addition to respiration ammonia, fishfood, fish waste and plant debris all break down into more ammonia. In nature, ammonia is immediately disbursed by millions of gallons of water. In our tanks it stays in higher concentrations near our fish. Ammonia, even in tiny amounts, causes permanent gill damage, leading to shortened lives or death.

The first species of autotrophic bacteria we grow, Nitrosomonas, takes this ammonia and converts it to nitrite(NO2.) Nitrite(NO2), unfortunately, is also a deadly poison to fish. In even tiny amounts, it latches on to the hemoglobin protein on fish red blood cells and takes up the place where oxygen should go. This turns the red blood cells to a brown mush and causes symptoms similar to suffocation in land mammals, damaging nerve cells permanenty, leading to shortened lives or death.

The second species of autotrophic bacteria we grow, Nitrospira, takes this nitrite(NO2) and converts it to nitrate(NO3) which is much, much less harmful to fish. It can be removed from the tank via our weekly water changes. It also serves as a handy pollution indicator that helps us more or less know if our water changes are working well to remove 100's of other substances that we don't want in the water.

All of this is to say that water changes are our friend. When in doubt, good aquarists do very large water changes and ask questions later. We always use good technique: Use a good conditioner to remove chlorine/chloramines and roughly temperature match (your hand is good enough.)

When the LFS employee noted that your ammonia was 1 and not zero it might at the time have sounded like no big deal (1 and zero don't sound like big numbers..) but of course now you realize that 0.25ppm (one quarter of that) is the line we like to never cross if we can help it. (Actual tolerance varies by species but numbers like 0.25ppm or 0.30ppm, which are the first color match on our popular testing kits, just set a safe point which should do a good job of covering all the species without people spending a lot of time looking for data that's probably not readily available.) Have you switched from paper strips to a good liquid-reagent testing kit yet? Most of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and its color levels and such have become a bit of common lingo we use.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[xamy_valox]

Amy, you're doing great! It turns out that minor temperature fluctuations and minor pH changes and the fuss of a water change are all of almost no importance compared to getting the ammonia and nitrite out of their water. When ammonia or nitrite are present they are a trump card over everythng else as far as urgency.

When fish respire by moving water through their gills, they not only give off CO2 but also significant amounts of ammonia as well. Unlike humans who need to conserve water (we have developed a kidney system to get our ammonia out but save more water) the fish can have all the water they need whenver its needed. So they just dump the ammonia directly. In addition to respiration ammonia, fishfood, fish waste and plant debris all break down into more ammonia. In nature, ammonia is immediately disbursed by millions of gallons of water. In our tanks it stays in higher concentrations near our fish. Ammonia, even in tiny amounts, causes permanent gill damage, leading to shortened lives or death.

The first species of autotrophic bacteria we grow, Nitrosomonas, takes this ammonia and converts it to nitrite(NO2.) Nitrite(NO2), unfortunately, is also a deadly poison to fish. In even tiny amounts, it latches on to the hemoglobin protein on fish red blood cells and takes up the place where oxygen should go. This turns the red blood cells to a brown mush and causes symptoms similar to suffocation in land mammals, damaging nerve cells permanenty, leading to shortened lives or death.

The second species of autotrophic bacteria we grow, Nitrospira, takes this nitrite(NO2) and converts it to nitrate(NO3) which is much, much less harmful to fish. It can be removed from the tank via our weekly water changes. It also serves as a handy pollution indicator that helps us more or less know if our water changes are working well to remove 100's of other substances that we don't want in the water.

All of this is to say that water changes are our friend. When in doubt, good aquarists do very large water changes and ask questions later. We always use good technique: Use a good conditioner to remove chlorine/chloramines and roughly temperature match (your hand is good enough.)

When the LFS employee noted that your ammonia was 1 and not zero it might at the time have sounded like no big deal (1 and zero don't sound like big numbers..) but of course now you realize that 0.25ppm (one quarter of that) is the line we like to never cross if we can help it. (Actual tolerance varies by species but numbers like 0.25ppm or 0.30ppm, which are the first color match on our popular testing kits, just set a safe point which should do a good job of covering all the species without people spending a lot of time looking for data that's probably not readily available.) Have you switched from paper strips to a good liquid-reagent testing kit yet? Most of us like and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit and its color levels and such have become a bit of common lingo we use.

~~waterdrop~~

Hi waterdrop,
Thanks for that, it's nice to know that I am actually doing something right!
I wasn't aware of the liquid testing kit until you mentioned it in a previous post, and I am going to buy one ASAP as like I said, my paper testing kit doesnt let me know what my ammonia levels are, and sometimes the colours are hard to identify and I would rather be 100% percent sure what is going on at this stage until I become more familiar with keeping fish and how my tank works.
I am going to get the one that you suggested as it is an API one, and they produce the Sress Zyme and Stress Coat that I have mentioned, so at least I know they are a good brand.
I did a water change today again, and my fish still sppear to be doing fine. I think I may have an all male tank at the moment (the only fish I don't know the sex of is my remaining platy) so there is a little bit of chasing and nipping going on, but nothing major.
I am still only feeding once every other day at the moment until I can get my levels better as I don't want to be produce yet more ammonia as I am trying to reduce it.
I am going to do another water change in a few days.
Amy.

 

[-Craig-]

Yeah i open the lid todo something and they all come to the top and even if i feed them twice a day it dosnt stop them Lol, i think they know that i feed them when i open the lid. Just continue the way you are.

 

[xamy_valox]

Yeah i open the lid todo something and they all come to the top and even if i feed them twice a day it dosnt stop them Lol, i think they know that i feed them when i open the lid. Just continue the way you are.

Haha, yeah, I guess they are just greedy
Thanks Craig, will do
Amy.