Farg Tank

[Bomber]

i have a 20gl tank that i would like to turn into a frag tank! But i don't know how to do it? what exactly do i need? Whats the best lighting i can get with out spending alot of money ( i was thinking about a t5 setup) what should i use for the bottom (live sand, crushed coral, rubble rock) what filter? ect



thanks

 

[nanocubeking]

I'm thinking of starting a frag tank too soon. And from what the pet store has told me they said its about the same as starting a regular tank. But some people dont like using sand or live rock in the tank. And to hold up all coral on neatly cut egg crate. Lighting is tough if you dont want to spend money. The best lighting is of course metal halide just get the correct wattage and any coral will be fine. And a sump filter and a protein skimmer.

-Miles

 

[SkiFletch]

The best frag tanks are shallow tanks with egg-crate. That way you don't need really high-powered lights to grow your frags

 

[Lynden]

Yeah, in my opinion high quality T-5s will be perfectly adequate even for most SPS in a twenty long. If you are looking for some $$$, it would be best then to get a 150/175 watt halide as the frags will be much more colourful under that light. This does however bring complications which I am sure you are aware of.

Just a note regarding $$$... it is unrealistic to expect even a cost offset from selling frags small scale. The best reason, in my opinion, to set up a frag tank is for fun and to give them away.

 

[Adrinal]

Yeah, in my opinion high quality T-5s will be perfectly adequate even for most SPS in a twenty long. If you are looking for some $$$, it would be best then to get a 150/175 watt halide as the frags will be much more colourful under that light. This does however bring complications which I am sure you are aware of.

Just a note regarding $$$... it is unrealistic to expect even a cost offset from selling frags small scale. The best reason, in my opinion, to set up a frag tank is for fun and to give them away.

First part, absolutely wrong.
Second part, absolutely true.

If you want economy of scale. get a 4' - 5' tank, tub or something that holds water. 2 bulbs T-5 over 2' of tank with quality reflectors. have the rack 8"-12" under the water.(55 watt version non overdriven). Lots of flow (which can be done on the cheep now a days). Lots of mature live rock. Have something to feed in there. Lots of brittles is fun for me

JIME

 

[Adrinal]

1'x1'x4' tanks with one t-5 are equally successful Its a little harder to get the flow right though.

 

[Lynden]

First part, absolutely wrong.

Er... can you back this? It is generally considered bad form to flatly state "you are wrong" without any evidence supporting yourself or even an explanation why you stated it, then later going on to recommend a similar thing to what you just so strongly opposed....?

Metal halides are effective for lighting deep aquaria but for very shallow tanks (twenty longs, for instance) there is no reason high quality T-5's shouldn't be able to support nearly all types of photosynthetic life. It is also true that corals will colour up under high lighting, the reason being that they now need those colours for protection under super high intensity lighting.

[URL="http/www.wetwebmedia.com/marlgtganthony.htm"]http/www.wetwebmedia.com/marlgtganthony.htm[/URL]

I agree with what the above article has to say.

 

[Adrinal]

it would be best then to get a 150/175 watt halide as the frags will be much more colourful under that light.

It is bad form, sorry.

Allow me to rephrase myself. I have been farming corals for over 3 years now under various lighting schemes over my ~100sq feet of tanks. T-5s have given me the best results for SPS (which is mostly what I do). T-5s or MH will give you good results. I believe any coral will get used to either (though I have seen corals under both lights take up to a year to really bust out the growth). High flow and quality water are above lighting for sure.

HTH

 

[Lynden]

Neat. So you don't see much colour change from the T-5's to the halides? It would be useful for newcomers to know that... I see quite a lot of people on the bigger websites recommending nothing but 400 watt halides for all but the smallest tanks, and in my opinion this is far from necessary or even desirable just to produce a slightly heightened colour.

 

[Adrinal]

Neat. So you don't see much colour change from the T-5's to the halides? It would be useful for newcomers to know that... I see quite a lot of people on the bigger websites recommending nothing but 400 watt halides for all but the smallest tanks, and in my opinion this is far from necessary or even desirable just to produce a slightly heightened colour.

There is color change. The MH on average give a darker look and the T-5 give a more pastel look, but both are quite beautiful.
I have found that 80+ PAR is enough for any of the corals. I do aim for 150 PAR and 80+ gph turnover.

This is my anicdotal thoughts on coral color.

If you have an established LE coral you will likely need time to get it to color up under T-5... why... because the mother colonies have been coming from MH dominated tanks. Once it does establish itself though you should be good to go. All my ORAs look stunning and grow well. I have club guys coming over in the Spring, I bet I can get some picture help then
I bet that if you fragged a wild caught box of corals... each piece in half. in one tank you had MH and in the other T-5. half those pieces would look better in T-5 faster and half in MH faster (once again, just a wild theory).
Lots of folks here are switching to all t-5 (even after t-5+MH. I still think MH looks awesome in a display, but just for coral color.. and going green, t-5 ftw.

Both bulbs have certain species they are better for in a display and different again in a shallow frag tank. Also, MH are much easier to install on a Light Rail... which has tones of benefits on the farming side of things.

but now we are getting outside of the actual post.

frag tank at home. 75g with 2 t-5, non-over driven electronic ballasts, run 8 hours, lots of live rock, lots of flow. skimmer, some fish to feed. or 40 breeder 150w MH
couple of good starts. 20g just isn't worth the cost, JIMO

oh, less than 4' tank mh is bang for buck. 4-5' tanks 4' t-5 is bang for buck. greater than 4' Light Tracks are worth looking into.

Just talking frag tanks.

 

[andywg]

What are your thoughts on the benefits, or otherwise, of LED lights in a farming situation?

 

[Adrinal]

What are your thoughts on the benefits, or otherwise, of LED lights in a farming situation?

LED looks promising. Unless you are able to make your own they are way out of the bang for buck equation.
They theoretically do not loose spectrum or power over time and so... last theoretically forever. I am sure there will be cheep computers for them if they do take off, they are dimmable. And, since corals seem to care more about flow and water quality than light (if you actually leave them alone for a few months), I don't see why LED couldn't become the light of choice. Once again, just too expensive right now. (and we are talking basement farming).

Large scale farming Sunlight and or MH works better. T-5 and LED are going to be less practical. If it is hard to maintain, you wont. You need a pretty nice way to move the lights so you can work on your babies.

 

[SkiFletch]

T5's are for sure excellent lights, and as you say Adrinal, can easily replace halides when trying to grow SPS. There's one problem though that people never really discuss: Reflectors. Halides just about require their own reflectors from their very structure/design. As such, almoast all the light is reflected down at the corals. T5s unfortunately are often sold with just one reflector, not a reflector per tube. A vast majority of "affordable" T5 fixtures only have a single reflector and waste tons of light as so. Really only the Tek and Geismann fixtures have nice individual reflectors, and those ain't cheap. I'm sure there are a handful of others, but you really need those individual reflectors.

 

[Adrinal]

T5's are for sure excellent lights, and as you say Adrinal, can easily replace halides when trying to grow SPS. There's one problem though that people never really discuss: Reflectors. Halides just about require their own reflectors from their very structure/design. As such, almoast all the light is reflected down at the corals. T5s unfortunately are often sold with just one reflector, not a reflector per tube. A vast majority of "affordable" T5 fixtures only have a single reflector and waste tons of light as so. Really only the Tek and Geismann fixtures have nice individual reflectors, and those ain't cheap. I'm sure there are a handful of others, but you really need those individual reflectors.

Ya I guess when I look through all the stuff thats out there I already filter it out. There are tons of bad ballasts and tons of cheep fixtures. The PAR difference from a moc unit to a good one 250%.

I haven't played with the geismen because the Tek is bang for buck (and I'm just out of experiment money at this point .

I stick with ATI bulbs because the aquasun is way nicer than the geisman.(though I could care less which brand's Full actinic bulb I use.

Front
ATI blue+
Aqua blue
ANYTHING
Blue +
Aqua Blue
Full Actinic
Back


I run the outside bulbs for 8-12 hours summer/winter
the center four bulbs I run four hours.

I run a tek on one display and a retro Ice-cap on the other (but its not needed (22 hind sight would have just got me 2 tek hoods).

anyone who has been running lots of VHO tanks is likely to apriciate using the VHO brand of bulbs more. They have sufficient PAR ratings.

 

[Adrinal]

T5's are for sure excellent lights, and as you say Adrinal, can easily replace halides when trying to grow SPS. There's one problem though that people never really discuss: Reflectors. Halides just about require their own reflectors from their very structure/design. As such, almoast all the light is reflected down at the corals. T5s unfortunately are often sold with just one reflector, not a reflector per tube. A vast majority of "affordable" T5 fixtures only have a single reflector and waste tons of light as so. Really only the Tek and Geismann fixtures have nice individual reflectors, and those ain't cheap. I'm sure there are a handful of others, but you really need those individual reflectors.

That reminds me, even parabolic reflectors themselves can be different. I remember when I switched from the origional Tek retro reflectors to the ICECap ones... It was burning out some chalices and when I did some side by side PAR reeding's... way different. I know the new TEK retros claim to be brighter than the Caps.... wish I had time to geek out with my meter... grrr. Anyhow, any parabolic reflector should be ok.