Extremely bloated betta for 10 days

[Diegos mom]

Hello,
First, my apologies for the book I'm about to write... I'm in search of some help with my boy, Diego. He's my first betta. I got him a year ago. He's been healthy the whole time except some minor fin rot he easily recovered from right after I brought him home. I have researched quite a bit to try to be the best betta owner I can be. He's in a 10gallon tank alone with silk plants. I clean/vac his tank regularly once a week, but have changed to every 2-3 days if anything looks funky. I usually use prime during water changes, but the last few weeks I started using AAP ResQ, or AAP Quinex because he was getting little grayish balls on his fin that would fall off days later and take the fin below with it. I upped the water changes and started using res q or quinex instead. It would go away and then come back a week or 2 later. Finally, the little balls stopped. HOWEVER.....
Most recently, I found him bloated out of nowhere one morning. I alternate all different kinds of food, but I have not soaked pellets whenever feeding those. He's never had an issue. I alternate between hikari pellets, NLS small pellets, bug bite flakes, freeze dried Daphnia, and frozen brine shrimp. I fasted him for 2 days and then fed a little bit of the freeze dried daphnia. I also added 8 total teaspoons Epsom salt to the tank slowly, over 2 days. He didnt seem to mind the salt, but no luck. The next day I did a 20% water change, but didn't add back any salt. I tried a piece of a green pea. No luck. He just keeps getting more and more bloated. I went and got frozen daphnia instead and tried a little bit of that today. So far, nothing. I read and read a million different places about bloating, sbd, or dropsy over the last few days. I decided I needed to do something today, so I started API general cure.

He isn't pineconing in my opinion, but I just might be in denial! There are lifted scales, BUT only on the bloated part of him. None on the top. Only where they are being pushed out from the bloating.

Can anyone help me with ideas of what to do? Did I screw up by putting Epsom salt in the tank and starting meds? I'm attaching a collage starting from day 1 until today. Also more pictures from today to show no pineconing on the top of him anywhere.

I appreciate any advice. If you need additional info, just let me know. Thank you so much!

 

[foxgirl158]

I'm no expert on Betta's, but even I can see that doesn't look good. I'll @ some members who I think might be able to help.
@Essjay @Colin_T @AdoraBelle Dearheart @Slaphppy7

 

[Diegos mom]

I'm no expert on Betta's, but even I can see that doesn't look good. I'll @ some members who I think might be able to help.
@Essjay @Colin_T @AdoraBelle Dearheart @Slaphppy7

Thank you so much! I'm hoping there's a way to help him.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I'm really not an expert on any fish, let alone bettas! The others will surely be able to help more.

But in the meantime, I do know that epsom salt baths can help remove fluids in a bloated fish, but that epsom salt shouldn't be used in the tank itself. So as an emergency measure, water change as much of that out as possible, ASAP. Rock or aquarium salt (basically the same thing) can be used in the tank itself, but not epsom salts.

I'd fast him for another day or two, until we can get some further advice from someone who knows what they're talking about, like @Colin_T , and avoid freeze dried foods for him in the future. Freeze dried foods can absorb fluid in the stomach once eaten, causing bloating. Best avoided unless you soak them before feeding.

Hope you find some answers soon, and the little guy pulls through!

 

[foxgirl158]

While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I'm really not an expert on any fish, let alone bettas! The others will surely be able to help more.

But in the meantime, I do know that epsom salt baths can help remove fluids in a bloated fish, but that epsom salt shouldn't be used in the tank itself. So as an emergency measure, water change as much of that out as possible, ASAP. Rock or aquarium salt (basically the same thing) can be used in the tank itself, but not epsom salts.

I'd fast him for another day or two, until we can get some further advice from someone who knows what they're talking about, like @Colin_T , and avoid freeze dried foods for him in the future. Freeze dried foods can absorb fluid in the stomach once eaten, causing bloating. Best avoided unless you soak them before feeding.

Hope you find some answers soon, and the little guy pulls through!

Is it just me or does it look more like a tumor? I don't know what bloating/dropsy looks like in bettas, but when my goldfish died from what I think was dropsy, it looked pregnant, not super rounded like that. But my fish also didn't have pine coned scales so

 

[Diegos mom]

While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I'm really not an expert on any fish, let alone bettas! The others will surely be able to help more.

But in the meantime, I do know that epsom salt baths can help remove fluids in a bloated fish, but that epsom salt shouldn't be used in the tank itself. So as an emergency measure, water change as much of that out as possible, ASAP. Rock or aquarium salt (basically the same thing) can be used in the tank itself, but not epsom salts.

I'd fast him for another day or two, until we can get some further advice from someone who knows what they're talking about, like @Colin_T , and avoid freeze dried foods for him in the future. Freeze dried foods can absorb fluid in the stomach once eaten, causing bloating. Best avoided unless you soak them before feeding.

Hope you find some answers soon, and the little guy pulls through!

Thank you!!!!! I really appreciate all the info and will get those salts out asap. Lesson learned the hard way.. Fingers crossed he makes it!

 

[Diegos mom]

I just want to say thank you both. I did a 50% water change just now. He's still acting himself and swimming to me begging. Hanging out watching me change his water... He seems to get around well considering the balloon under him. I'm going to fast him like you said, and I'll watch for any updates. Otherwise, I'll be back with an update in a few days.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Is it just me or does it look more like a tumor? I don't know what bloating/dropsy looks like in bettas, but when my goldfish died from what I think was dropsy, it looked pregnant, not super rounded like that. But my fish also didn't have pine coned scales so

It does look a lot like a tumour, although I've only personally seen tumours in goldfish, I know other fish can get them of course - but I doubt that it's a tumour in this case, since OP said the betta appeared swollen like this one morning recently. Tumours, especially one this size - tend to grow more slowly.

It doesn't look like dropsy either... not truly pineconing.

I just want to say thank you both. I did a 50% water change just now. He's still acting himself and swimming to me begging. Hanging out watching me change his water... He seems to get around well considering the balloon under him. I'm going to fast him like you said, and I'll watch for any updates. Otherwise, I'll be back with an update in a few days.

The fact that isn't lethargic and fin-clamped, still has an appetite is a good thing! Hopefully it means we have time to find out what's going on.

Your care of him has been great, @Diegos mom . Nicely sized tank, W/C's etc, it's obvious that you care for him a lot, and you've done a lot of research on bettas and want to give him the best! Sadly, bettas can be pretty prone to issues, and relatively short-lived So whatever happens, try not to beat yourself up too much, and don't leave the hobby. We need more people in the hobby who care about their fish as much as you clearly do.

I'm afraid I haven't seen Colin online, and he'll have a hundred or so tags when he does come back online I'm sure... so after some sleep and re-reading the OP, other things that concern me are that;

1. This roundness only appeared after you began using those new products, right? AAP ResQ, or AAP Quinex?
Not being in the US, I'm not sure what those are, or how safe they may be.

2. What those greyish balls you describe might have been. Sounds a bit like fin-rot, which can be very difficult to get rid of for good.

Since Colin, our disease expert isn't around, going to tag @Essjay @DoubleDutch @Fishmanic @Naughts @WhistlingBadger to see whether any of them have advice or opinions too!
ETA: adding @Donya to the tag list! Being in the US, hoping you'll know those products!

I wonder whether it's worth going back to only using Prime in his water, and trying either an epsom salt bath, or adding aquarium salt to his tank water. But again, I'm really not qualified in any sense of the word, and I truly don't know what's going on with him. I'm just thinking aloud about what I would try if it were my fish, and Colin wasn't around to advise me.

 

[Essjay]

I have to admit I've not seen anything like this myself. It doesn't look like dropsy as the scales aren't sticking out, but I don't know what else the cause could be

 

[Diegos mom]

It does look a lot like a tumour, although I've only personally seen tumours in goldfish, I know other fish can get them of course - but I doubt that it's a tumour in this case, since OP said the betta appeared swollen like this one morning recently. Tumours, especially one this size - tend to grow more slowly.

It doesn't look like dropsy either... not truly pineconing.



The fact that isn't lethargic and fin-clamped, still has an appetite is a good thing! Hopefully it means we have time to find out what's going on.

Your care of him has been great, @Diegos mom . Nicely sized tank, W/C's etc, it's obvious that you care for him a lot, and you've done a lot of research on bettas and want to give him the best! Sadly, bettas can be pretty prone to issues, and relatively short-lived So whatever happens, try not to beat yourself up too much, and don't leave the hobby. We need more people in the hobby who care about their fish as much as you clearly do.

I'm afraid I haven't seen Colin online, and he'll have a hundred or so tags when he does come back online I'm sure... so after some sleep and re-reading the OP, other things that concern me are that;

1. This roundness only appeared after you began using those new products, right? AAP ResQ, or AAP Quinex?
Not being in the US, I'm not sure what those are, or how safe they may be.

2. What those greyish balls you describe might have been. Sounds a bit like fin-rot, which can be very difficult to get rid of for good.

Since Colin, our disease expert isn't around, going to tag @Essjay @DoubleDutch @Fishmanic @Naughts @WhistlingBadger to see whether any of them have advice or opinions too!
ETA: adding @Donya to the tag list! Being in the US, hoping you'll know those products!

I wonder whether it's worth going back to only using Prime in his water, and trying either an epsom salt bath, or adding aquarium salt to his tank water. But again, I'm really not qualified in any sense of the word, and I truly don't know what's going on with him. I'm just thinking aloud about what I would try if it were my fish, and Colin wasn't around to advise me.

It does look a lot like a tumour, although I've only personally seen tumours in goldfish, I know other fish can get them of course - but I doubt that it's a tumour in this case, since OP said the betta appeared swollen like this one morning recently. Tumours, especially one this size - tend to grow more slowly.

It doesn't look like dropsy either... not truly pineconing.



The fact that isn't lethargic and fin-clamped, still has an appetite is a good thing! Hopefully it means we have time to find out what's going on.

Your care of him has been great, @Diegos mom . Nicely sized tank, W/C's etc, it's obvious that you care for him a lot, and you've done a lot of research on bettas and want to give him the best! Sadly, bettas can be pretty prone to issues, and relatively short-lived So whatever happens, try not to beat yourself up too much, and don't leave the hobby. We need more people in the hobby who care about their fish as much as you clearly do.

I'm afraid I haven't seen Colin online, and he'll have a hundred or so tags when he does come back online I'm sure... so after some sleep and re-reading the OP, other things that concern me are that;

1. This roundness only appeared after you began using those new products, right? AAP ResQ, or AAP Quinex?
Not being in the US, I'm not sure what those are, or how safe they may be.

2. What those greyish balls you describe might have been. Sounds a bit like fin-rot, which can be very difficult to get rid of for good.

Since Colin, our disease expert isn't around, going to tag @Essjay @DoubleDutch @Fishmanic @Naughts @WhistlingBadger to see whether any of them have advice or opinions too!
ETA: adding @Donya to the tag list! Being in the US, hoping you'll know those products!

I wonder whether it's worth going back to only using Prime in his water, and trying either an epsom salt bath, or adding aquarium salt to his tank water. But again, I'm really not qualified in any sense of the word, and I truly don't know what's going on with him. I'm just thinking aloud about what I would try if it were my fish, and Colin wasn't around to advise me.

Good news is, I did go back to using just prime for the last 3 or 4 water changes. I'll continue to do that going forward.
AAP is short for American Aquarium Products. I ran into the website somehow and there was so much information, I decided to try some of the stress guard type water conditioners. The bloating did start after that, BUT I have this feeling that it could be constipation and I didn't fast him long enough that first time. I only fasted for 2 days initially because it pains me to see him beg. Haha. Also, the first thing I gave him after was FREEZE DRIED daphnia. Since then, I have given him a tiny bit of frozen brime shrimp the next day, and then the tiniest bit of frozen daphnia the day after that. It's been only the littlest bit of food, but its still been food. So, this time I'll be strong and not feed him for 3 - 4 days.
As for the greyish balls, definitely some sort of fin rot... I googled so much, and found a couple people with the same problem. It happened to also be on crown tails, but they never ended up fixing it either. It just kept going away for them too and then coming back. I tried Paraguard first for that, but it didn't do a thing. Then I just started doing every other day water changes. The only way it stopped on one that I found, was due to the person moving. So, a new water source. BTW, I already use Indian almond leaf in his tank, and a good amount of homemade tea in every water change too. I didn't mention that before.

Thank you for mentioning not to give up either way because I was beginning to feel that way. I honestly do everything I can to do the right thing for him and I've spent countless hours learning. But I truly enjoy this, and I love learning about it. Plus, bettas are like little water puppies! I mean, I probably won't be able to stop. I like them too much. But I do feel somewhat defeated... I did do my best though. I can say that! Next time I'll start by not buying a betta from a chain store that mistreats them from the start.

 

[Naughts]

Sorry, I don't know the cause of /cure for this.
Adorabelle suggested treatment for the symptoms of bloat - fasting for a day and then offer a blanched, deshelled pea. You can also do an epsom salt bath- Fill a gallon bowl with dechlorinated water the same temperature as the tank water. Add 1 teaspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water and bathe the fish in it for 15 minutes then place back in tank (use a cup not a net), do this 3 times a day.
An alternative theory, somewhat unusual in betta, may be worms. Personally I don't see the harm in a course of dewormer (flubendazole and praziquantel, which is the API general cure ingredients), if you don't mind the cost.
I hope you get help in time for your fish.

extra info about dewormimg-

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Diegos mom]

I have to admit I've not seen anything like this myself. It doesn't look like dropsy as the scales aren't sticking out, but I don't know what else the cause could be

Thanks for looking! Between his little Grey fluffy balls that take off his fin ray when they fall off (that I couldn't find much info for online either), and this bloating, he's a special specimen!

 

[Diegos mom]

Sorry, I don't know the cause of /cure for this.
Adorabelle suggested treatment for the symptoms of bloat - fasting for a day and then offer a blanched, deshelled pea. You can also do an epsom salt bath- Fill a gallon bowl with dechlorinated water the same temperature as the tank water. Add 1 teaspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water and bathe the fish in it for 15 minutes then place back in tank (use a cup not a net), do this 3 times a day.
An alternative theory, somewhat unusual in betta, may be worms. Personally I don't see the harm in a course of dewormer (flubendazole and praziquantel, which is the API general cure ingredients), if you don't mind the cost.
I hope you get help in time for your fish.

extra info about dewormimg-

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

Thank you! I actually have seen this attached post from searching everything under the sun, so now I feel totally comfortable going forward with meds for worms.

Sorry, I don't know the cause of /cure for this.
Adorabelle suggested treatment for the symptoms of bloat - fasting for a day and then offer a blanched, deshelled pea. You can also do an epsom salt bath- Fill a gallon bowl with dechlorinated water the same temperature as the tank water. Add 1 teaspoon of epsom salt per gallon of water and bathe the fish in it for 15 minutes then place back in tank (use a cup not a net), do this 3 times a day.
An alternative theory, somewhat unusual in betta, may be worms. Personally I don't see the harm in a course of dewormer (flubendazole and praziquantel, which is the API general cure ingredients), if you don't mind the cost.
I hope you get help in time for your fish.

extra info about dewormimg-

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

I actually ran into the attached page in all my crazy web searching, so now I feel totally comfortable starting meds for worms since I also have another opinion. I already have prazipro, so I just bought Levamisole. Hopefully, he makes it through! Thank you so much for taking a look at him and giving me your thoughts. His still begging and swimming around like nothing is wrong... I hope I can save him.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Good news is, I did go back to using just prime for the last 3 or 4 water changes. I'll continue to do that going forward.
AAP is short for American Aquarium Products. I ran into the website somehow and there was so much information, I decided to try some of the stress guard type water conditioners.

Definitely not saying the supplier or store is bad, even after looking at the store online myself, I'm not sure! They seem to mainly be an aquarium product warehouse, supplying products by companies like API. But the two products you'd mentioned, I haven't heard recommended anywhere before, so I'm always a bit wary of unknown medications - especially for labyrinth fish.

The best medications for most issues are what you've already been doing, which is lots of fresh clean water in the form of large, regular water changes, and tannins from Indian Almond leaves, rooibos tea etc have many beneficial qualities.

Sadly as you've discovered, fin rot can be incredibly hard to get rid of for good - crowntails seems to get it the worst, I'd guess because all of those delicate fin edges give a lot of surface area for bacteria to take hold, and any tiny tears allow it in...

The good news is that judging by those pics, the fin rot isn't horribly advanced. He still has the majority of his finnage, so my first concern is that dramatic swelling. If that clears up/the problem is discovered, and the fin rot is the next issue to tackle, I'd be tempted to move him to a smaller tank temporarily and try some methelyne blue. (A spare tank because it will stain! Don't want your beautiful 10g to be stained blue, lol).

Since our resident disease expert isn't around, I hope the mods don't mind my suggesting another place to seek help... there's a website called Wet Web Media, run by experts in the hobby, and they have different areas of the site that can be so useful. You can email them for an unusual problem like this to get advice, ensure you include the photos and outline what treatments you've tried etc, and see what they suggest. I've emailed them myself and very quickly got a response from Dr. Neale Monks, who was wonderful and very helpful. Once you've emailed, I'd do some searches on their F.A.Q for swellings, swollen betta, any keywords you think might bring up similar cases. They're a great resource I don't hesitate to recommend!

 

[Diegos mom]

Thanks for the additional resource. I was about to post here again because I did another water change to ensure the salt is all gone, and he really had a hard time with it. I did the same as always, matched temp, used prime and tea, and used the same equipment. It may be that he's getting weaker? But as I saw him on the bottom not even moving his little side fins (sorry, dont know the names of fins) I was sure he died, when all of a sudden he gulped air. So I grabbed a net to help him to the top and place him on a plant, but he freaked out cause he hates being netted and swam there himself. Anyway, as he was laying there looking worse than ever so far, I noticed what I think are protruding scales in places other than where he is swollen. Unfortunately, I think it might be dropsy. Pics from today attached. He is now swimming around again acting a little more normal, but its getting harder for him to get around. I'll check out that website now. Thanks again!