External filter size and flow

[mathew101]

Hi All,
Firstly thanks in advance for any help or reply it is very much appreciated. I wanted to ask for advice regarding adding an external filter to my new vision 190ltr aquarium. I’ve been offered a JBL e1902 which is quite large with with a 1900ltr/hr flow rate. Would this be too strong for my tank should I be looking at a smaller model like the e1502 or even the e902 or my size tank. My fear is the flow will be too much for my current fish including some panda corys 4, 2Bolivian Rams, 2 Angels, 4 dwarf gouramis,6 Emperor Tetras and 6 silver tip tetras. Basically my local shop supplies the JBL profi e series hence the question.

 

[StandbySetting]

Once you factor in filter media and pipework etc the true turnover is probably close to half the manufacturers stated flow rate, personally I think this filter would be great for your tank, just ensure flow is evenly and we'll distributed so as not to batter the fish and make them work harder than they need to.

 

[mathew101]

Once you factor in filter media and pipework etc the true turnover is probably close to half the manufacturers stated flow rate, personally I think this filter would be great for your tank, just ensure flow is evenly and we'll distributed so as not to batter the fish and make them work harder than they need to.

Thanks a million for your reply, the guy in the store says it would be perfect the more filtration the better. They are expensive but it’s a good price as it’s used but only for a few months. I was thinking or using the spray bar which should reduce flow. I was just worried as JBL e902 is up to 300ltr tank and the e1502 is like up to 600ltr hence I was worried the e1902 was way too strong.

 

[Oblio]

I was also thinking of recommending a spray bar. Back when I had a canister, the spray bar created less disruption than my current AquaClear 110.

 

[GaryE]

The only fish on your list that's an absolute stillwater species is the dwarf gourami. If you aim the outflow so that one end of the tank is quieter, you can probably accommodate them. Notice the water movement in this wild habitat for angels and tetras.

 

[mathew101]

I assume the 1902 refers to let’s/hr so taking half be like 850 ish

 

[mathew101]

The only fish on your list that's an absolute stillwater species is the dwarf gourami. If you aim the outflow so that one end of the tank is quieter, you can probably accommodate them. Notice the water movement in this wild habitat for angels and tetras.

The only fish on your list that's an absolute stillwater species is the dwarf gourami. If you aim the outflow so that one end of the tank is quieter, you can probably accommodate them. Notice the water movement in this wild habitat for angels and tetras.

thank you so much, so in your opinion would you go for the larger 1902 or just go with the likes of the 902 for the 190 tank.

 

[Byron]

the guy in the store says it would be perfect the more filtration the better.

This is absolutely false. The store wants to sell you a filter, and continue selling you supplies for it no doubt.

Filtration occurs in any aquarium that is biologically balanced (not overstocked, not overfed, correct mix of species, etc). With or without a filter, this occurs. You could (and should be able to) remove the filter and not replace it with no harm. I'm not suggesting you do, there is another aspect to this, but this does get across the fact that filtration is widely misunderstood. There is a much more important bed of bacteria in the substrate than in any filter. More filters or faster flow filters cannot improve the natural filtration that will be there regardless, provided things are balanced.

The real issue with the filter is water movement. Some fish need less, some need more, and this directly impacts their health. It is not what is going on tin the filter, but the flow of water that matters. Flow rates of "x" liters per hour is meaningless. I have used sponge filters in tanks up to 40 gallons (3 feet/90 cm length) for years, and there is very little water flow with these. But the fish thrive and spawn.

What filter do you currently have? Chances are it is sufficient. Panda cories do like some water flow, and your current filter might provide this without going to extreme. When I had my 5-foot 115g tank running for some 20 years, the canister filter created a decent flow at the left end, but by the time the current moved across the tank to the filter intake at the opposite end it was quite minimal; plant leaves never moved in it. It was interesting to observe how many fish tended to prefer the quieter end.

There is an article by one of our members @AbbeysDad on his blog that is instructive:

The Dirty Truth About Filters – MJV Aquatics

mjvaquatics.com

 

[Oblio]

It was interesting to observe how many fish tended to prefer the quieter end.

I noticed when I attenuated the flow on my HOB, the Blackskirts spent more time on that end of the tank, my Corys may have been upset though, as you said, they enjoy the current.

 

[mathew101]

This is absolutely false. The store wants to sell you a filter, and continue selling you supplies for it no doubt.

Filtration occurs in any aquarium that is biologically balanced (not overstocked, not overfed, correct mix of species, etc). With or without a filter, this occurs. You could (and should be able to) remove the filter and not replace it with no harm. I'm not suggesting you do, there is another aspect to this, but this does get across the fact that filtration is widely misunderstood. There is a much more important bed of bacteria in the substrate than in any filter. More filters or faster flow filters cannot improve the natural filtration that will be there regardless, provided things are balanced.

The real issue with the filter is water movement. Some fish need less, some need more, and this directly impacts their health. It is not what is going on tin the filter, but the flow of water that matters. Flow rates of "x" liters per hour is meaningless. I have used sponge filters in tanks up to 40 gallons (3 feet/90 cm length) for years, and there is very little water flow with these. But the fish thrive and spawn.

What filter do you currently have? Chances are it is sufficient. Panda cories do like some water flow, and your current filter might provide this without going to extreme. When I had my 5-foot 115g tank running for some 20 years, the canister filter created a decent flow at the left end, but by the time the current moved across the tank to the filter intake at the opposite end it was quite minimal; plant leaves never moved in it. It was interesting to observe how many fish tended to prefer the quieter end.

There is an article by one of our members @AbbeysDad on his blog that is instructive:

The Dirty Truth About Filters – MJV Aquatics

mjvaquatics.com

 

[GaryE]

It actually isn't completely false, just stated poorly. There is only so much filtration possible, but you do want as large a set of media as can be used. That is hard to judge, but for species like need good water movement, I go with about twice what the manufacturer suggests. Having a 20 times turnover as opposed to ten may not improve the actual filtration, but it may radically improve the lives of the fish you keep.
You need a large enough tank you aren't getting a swirling toilet bowl effect, since nature has neither corners nor glass.
In any stream, you'll have the moving central area and quiet edges, and the quiet edges are the domain of the bubblenesting gouramis you have. As aquarists, we really misunderstand the question of water movement. There are a number of species we think are aggressive or nippy that become sweethearts in moving water. They're wired to burn energy and in a slow tank, that energy goes where it shouldn't, and wouldn't in nature.
Our hobby started out with an interest in swamp fish, as we were unable to move water much. The oxygen levels could be low. I have fish that thrive in unfiltered tanks, because they thrive in still water. There are also fish like Corydoras, which love moving water, but breathe surface air in a pinch (in through the mouth after a dash to the surface, then exhaling out the anus...). When you look at all the torpedo shaped fish we like, well, they aren't aerodynamic for show.

I've had the privilege of floating down a stream with wild swordtails and massive schools of tetras, and the current would have knocked me over if I had tried to stand against it. Drifting on the current was racing downstream. I felt kind of sorry for some of the swordtails I'd kept in slow tanks, and won't be doing THAT again. Their shape makes sense after that.

So filter away, as long as the turbulence from the tank shape is under control and the fish are well chosen.

 

[mathew101]

This is absolutely false. The store wants to sell you a filter, and continue selling you supplies for it no doubt.

Filtration occurs in any aquarium that is biologically balanced (not overstocked, not overfed, correct mix of species, etc). With or without a filter, this occurs. You could (and should be able to) remove the filter and not replace it with no harm. I'm not suggesting you do, there is another aspect to this, but this does get across the fact that filtration is widely misunderstood. There is a much more important bed of bacteria in the substrate than in any filter. More filters or faster flow filters cannot improve the natural filtration that will be there regardless, provided things are balanced.

The real issue with the filter is water movement. Some fish need less, some need more, and this directly impacts their health. It is not what is going on tin the filter, but the flow of water that matters. Flow rates of "x" liters per hour is meaningless. I have used sponge filters in tanks up to 40 gallons (3 feet/90 cm length) for years, and there is very little water flow with these. But the fish thrive and spawn.

What filter do you currently have? Chances are it is sufficient. Panda cories do like some water flow, and your current filter might provide this without going to extreme. When I had my 5-foot 115g tank running for some 20 years, the canister filter created a decent flow at the left end, but by the time the current moved across the tank to the filter intake at the opposite end it was quite minimal; plant leaves never moved in it. It was interesting to observe how many fish tended to prefer the quieter end.

There is an article by one of our members @AbbeysDad on his blog that is instructive:

The Dirty Truth About Filters – MJV Aquatics

mjvaquatics.com

Hello and thank you for your reply, so it’s basically a new/used tank and came with an internal canister internet type filter but I know the guy was running an external filter on it prior to me collecting. I have another tank which I run two sponge filters and a small internal canister Eihem. I was planning on moving one of my sponge filters to the new tank as it’s from a very well established tank so lots of very healthy Bio filtration to get the new one up and running. I suppose I was just thinking of adding a external JBL as I’ve never had one or a tank this size and wanted the best environment for the fish that will be added.

 

[Byron]

Hello and thank you for your reply, so it’s basically a new/used tank and came with an internal canister internet type filter but I know the guy was running an external filter on it prior to me collecting. I have another tank which I run two sponge filters and a small internal canister Eihem. I was planning on moving one of my sponge filters to the new tank as it’s from a very well established tank so lots of very healthy Bio filtration to get the new one up and running. I suppose I was just thinking of adding a external JBL as I’ve never had one or a tank this size and wanted the best environment for the fish that will be added.

What are the dimensions; 190 liters (roughly 50 gallons) could be a 3-foot/90 cm) tank, or something else.

 

[mathew101]

What are the dimensions; 190 liters (roughly 50 gallons) could be a 3-foot/90 cm) tank, or something else.

Your quite right the tank is 3ft long and over 1.5ft wide and tall would be 50g for sure.

 

[mathew101]

It actually isn't completely false, just stated poorly. There is only so much filtration possible, but you do want as large a set of media as can be used. That is hard to judge, but for species like need good water movement, I go with about twice what the manufacturer suggests. Having a 20 times turnover as opposed to ten may not improve the actual filtration, but it may radically improve the lives of the fish you keep.
You need a large enough tank you aren't getting a swirling toilet bowl effect, since nature has neither corners nor glass.
In any stream, you'll have the moving central area and quiet edges, and the quiet edges are the domain of the bubblenesting gouramis you have. As aquarists, we really misunderstand the question of water movement. There are a number of species we think are aggressive or nippy that become sweethearts in moving water. They're wired to burn energy and in a slow tank, that energy goes where it shouldn't, and wouldn't in nature.
Our hobby started out with an interest in swamp fish, as we were unable to move water much. The oxygen levels could be low. I have fish that thrive in unfiltered tanks, because they thrive in still water. There are also fish like Corydoras, which love moving water, but breathe surface air in a pinch (in through the mouth after a dash to the surface, then exhaling out the anus...). When you look at all the torpedo shaped fish we like, well, they aren't aerodynamic for show.

I've had the privilege of floating down a stream with wild swordtails and massive schools of tetras, and the current would have knocked me over if I had tried to stand against it. Drifting on the current was racing downstream. I felt kind of sorry for some of the swordtails I'd kept in slow tanks, and won't be doing THAT again. Their shape makes sense after that.

So filter away, as long as the turbulence from the tank shape is under control and the fish are well chosen.

Thanks for the brilliant information, the biggest thing I was worrying about was the toilet effect as you mentioned.