Europe

[Akasha72]

funny old world if we couldn't agree to disagree
 
 
As a side note ... anyone know when the ban on our hobby can be lifted? I'd love to see lovely apple snails back on sale in the shop - I wouldn't get one cos my water is too soft for their shells but I'd still love to see them on sale again

I have lived in Denmark since 1998 and have a Danish wife. I saw in this thread, and have seen reported from a number of sources, that "Denmark is next" to leave. This puzzles me, where are people getting this idea from. It is certainly true we had a referendum earlier this year, but it concerned Denmarks relations with Europol, the EU wide police organisation, nothing to do with EU membership generally. I read Danish newspapers, watch Danish TV news etc., if this was true in any way, I would have thought it likely that I'd have heard about it.

 
I think a lot of it is the media jumping to conclusions - that said though Marine Le Pen of France hinted that France may be going down the same route that the Uk have just taken.
 
I think for now we have to sit and wait and see what comes

 

[Lateral Line]

Another point occurred to me. I am British, have a British passport, vote in British elections etc. but was not given the opportunity to vote in the referendum - mystifying.

 

[Akasha72]

I'm not sure how it worked Lateral Line ... I have a feeling you had to be living in the UK? I don't think those Brits living in Spain got a say in it either ... not that I'm aware of anyway

 

[Lateral Line]

Too late to worry about now.

 

[Akasha72]

it is

 

[Far_King]

I am not judging anyone, nor am I defending the way the EU governs itself or operates.  You missed my point.  I believe the complex issues need cooler heads than those of the general populace.  This is why we elect a government.  There is also the fact that the EU may have made structural changes without this step.  I heard that Germany had made such offers.  When there is so much at stake, it is better to calmly work through perceived issues.  Packing up your toys and going home is not the best way.  And from the news reports I have seen (on the BBC world service) I get the distinct impression that many [I said many, not all] of the "leave" voters were acting from the wrong motives for something as crucial as this issue.

 
Trust not what the BBC says, they are and have been all the way through, very much against leaving the EU.  The propaganda has been breathtaking.  An unbiased broadcaster they are not and they should be made to answer for the way they've conducted themselves during the whole thing.
 
It says something when I trust France 24 to report news in a correct manner over my own national broadcaster.

 

[Akasha72]

I agree Far_King .... there are a very small minority that voted Leave for racist reasons but if you watch the BBC ALL who voted Leave based it on racist views. This makes me angry.
 
As previously said - no one, whether they are a news reporter of a general man in the street, can know what was going through another persons mind when they cast their vote ... simply because no one is a mind reader. But listening to some of the news reports you would think that they are mind readers ... that they know exactly what was going through people minds and now they are going to find a stick and beat them with it. It doesn't help that they are now reporting a unturn in racist abuse since the referendum.
As one person interviewed said "these racist people always existed, the referendum just gives them an excuse to behave badly. Do not blame the referendum for their behaviour. They were racist to begin with and always will be whether there was a referendum or not"
 
 
One thing though .... for weeks we heard that the economy would suffer if we left. That house prices would plummet to an all time low. That people would lose their jobs on Friday 24th June. That we would plummet into another recession. That plaque of locusts would infect the country and the four horsemen of the apocolypse would ride out and the world would end
 
 
4th July and I'm still waiting ... 

 

[Baccus]

What I always find interesting about the so called public polls, I never get called or stopped in the street to get my views on what ever current news polls the stations are pushing. Yet I am expected to believe that 96% (or any old number pulled from the magical hat) represents the vast majority of peoples views.
What people always need to remember is that statistics can be made to read any old way the publisher wants it to read, and rarely do they really disclose just how many people where actually asked, let alone that most surveys people actively lie on for many reasons and not always just to be deceitful.
 
For example I could do a "survey on the number of Colour Blind Women in X area" and if I only talk to my Mum, My Sister and include myself and include two women from my work I could make the results of the survey read 3 out of every 5 women are colour blind. That sounds pretty bad especially when in reality I think its supposed to only be 1 in 100 women are colour blind. But if my goal was to make the instances of colour blindness seem worse than it is then I would have succeeded all while making the survey seem above board and totally impartial, because I didn't have to disclose my sources, just the result I wanted.

 

[Far_King]

I kept seeing about how people who are well educated were the ones to vote Remain and those who aren't would vote leave and that the majority of people in the area I live in will vote to remain.
 
Rubbish.  I'm educated to degree level as are many people I know and all but two people I know voted leave.  Friends and relatives with properties and vested interests in Europe voted to leave.  Friends of mine who aren't British by birth and are of different races and beliefs all voted leave.
 
The only people I know that voted to stay were Scottish and I've not managed to speak to all my Scottish friends and relatives yet to find out their views.
 
What I have found out is many people have differing views as to why we should leave because there are so many reasons.  Everyone appears to hold to the same belief that they don't want un-elected foreign officials making rules and laws and governing this country without our say so. And they all feel the the EU has grown and gotten greedy from what it was originally intended, a trade zone.  I truly believe that if there was reform and the EU showed reform beforehand that we would have stayed.  Cameron's failure to negotiate a reform showed the EU will do as it pleases and there was nothing that could be done about it, even by one of the major players and contributors.  How the smaller countries involved would have pushed for any change I have no idea, I think it would be a complete waste of time.

 

[Akasha72]

I think the only reason the Scots wanted to remain is that they get the most money back. I think my Dad read that Scotland gets more subsidies back from Europe per head than the whole of the U.K. Not hard to see why they voted to remain if that is true.
 
I understand that Nicola Sturgen went to Brussels to beg the EU for mercy and was sent packing .... again, if the papers are to be believed. I wasn't there in person and I always take everything I read in the news with a pinch of salt.
 
I will be very interested to see what happens with these others countries that are supposed to be considering leaving too. I think the next 6 months will be a very interesting time in politics

 

[Ch4rlie]

Uh, I am Scottish and I voted leave, my parents did as well.
 
Its not really about the money tbh, its about the control of the EU is the main reason why we voted this way. BTW i did not know my parents voted leave until AFTER the referendum
 
And they are NOT happy with Sturgeon trying to get Scottish independance on the back of this referendum, we don't want this to happen because of the referendum and being indenpendant AND staying in the EU is not really ideal. Sturgeon is totally ignoring the leave voters, dismissing them practically and only seeing what she wants to see and interpreting things to suit her voice in commons.
 
OH, just found out, Farage has just quit the leadership race....what IS happening with the goverenment honestly.
 
Not that am really bothered about the muppet Farage stepping down, also with blundering Boris backing down but Michael Gove taking over, who is a remain voter btw.
 
40 MP resigning over Corbyn as well.
 
This is crazy stuff. You could not make this up if you tried.....

 

[Far_King]

Lol, I didn't mean to imply everyone Scottish wanted to Remain
 
I know who of my friends swallows what Sturgeon's shovelling and who doesn't, so I can pretty much guess who has voted what.  It usually depends on who is a Rangers and who is a Celtic fan.
 
Definitely Interesting Times, especially in Politics.

 

[Akasha72]

the problem as I see it is - there are too many politicians who are hell bent of power over anything else. They didn't become a politician to help people ... no, they did to get rich for doing very little and to have power over what they see as 'the little people'.
 
Those 'little people' have got fed up of it now.
 
Sturgeon is one of those power crazed politicians ... you can see it in her eyes - well I can anyway. Cameron is another one. 
 
I hope you lovely Scottish people don't go for another independence vote but with the language Sturgeon is using I can see it coming in the next 6 months 

 

[Far_King]

It's just a case of who shouts loudest.  Which happens to be her.  There's plenty of Scots who want to remain, they're just not so vocal about it.  The SNP is a protest vote against Labour betrayal and most would not consider voting Conservative.
 
I do agree with you about the power crazed.  I believe there should be no such thing as a career politician.  Give power to someone who doesn't crave it...

 

[Byron]

I thought I was finished in this thread, having made my general point on the problems with referenda, etc.  But the news item last evening concerning Nigel Farage's resignation honestly made my blood boil.
 
I am not going to go back through this thread, but I believe I (or others) earlier made the point that there were ulterior motives driving Farage and his supporters, and he has now come out and proven that without question.  They had no plan as to what would occur in the event of a "leave" result, because they don't really care what happens to the UK.  Mr. Farage was clear: "my political ambition has been achieved."  
 
To have promoted something as significant as "Brexit" without any thought as to the outcome and how to deal with it was an insult to the citizens of the UK.  And this is not some "spin" by the BBC.  I saw the speeches this individual made, and they should make everyone cringe.
 
Mr. Cameron should do the decent and right thing, and quash this result and move forward.  Like every member of parliament, he was elected to act in the best interests of the citizens of the UK.  Instead of everyone washing their hands of this fiasco, let some of them show true leadership and do their constitutional duty.
 
Think of rats deserting a sinking ship.  My father, who loved his homeland, is probably turning over in his grave.
 
Byron.