Dying Fish New Tank

[merseychic]

We have bought our Biorb and though we kept fish years ago the orb is new to us. We established it new filter, plants and ran it for a week empty. We introduced 6 rummy nose and 2 cat fish and lost 1 rummy nose the first day today we have lost 2 more. I have now found your site and been reading the cycling posts but i am puzzled as The filter in the biorb gets completely replaced every 4 - 6 weeks so surely this means that it is a new sponge with no bacteria present so we have to start the cycle again. Is there anything we can do or are we doomed to loose our fish

 

[fluttermoth]

Hi there; welcome to the forum; I'm sorry for your losses

The manufacturers only say that stuff about replacing the filter sponges to get more money off you; there is no need to change them. Just rinse the surface dirt off in old tank water when you do a water change.

What size is your Biorb? I'm worried that the rummy noses might get too big. Also, do you know what species the two 'catfish' are? There are literally hundreds of different 'catfish' and many of them won't be suited to your tank, I'm afraid.

You need to invest in good, liquid test kits (not the paper strips, they're very inaccurate) for ammonia and nitrite so you can monitor the water and change it if neccessary (ie, if the readings for either of those two substances go above 0.25ppm). That way you can keep your fish safe until your filter is cycled.

 

[the_lock_man]

i am puzzled as The filter in the biorb gets completely replaced every 4 - 6 weeks so surely this means that it is a new sponge with no bacteria present so we have to start the cycle again.

You are quite right, it would mean exactly that, so I would echo what Fluttermoth says about only rinsing the sponge.

If you can beg/borrow/steal/acquire some mature filter media from a friend or the shop where you bought the Biorb, it will help your filter immensely. Even a little can drastically reduce the time taken to establish the cycle, so if there's any space whatsoever in the filter than can be filled with something mature, it's deffo worthwile. Just make sure you keep it wet while transporting it.

 

[merseychic]

Hi there; welcome to the forum; I'm sorry for your losses

The manufacturers only say that stuff about replacing the filter sponges to get more money off you; there is no need to change them. Just rinse the surface dirt off in old tank water when you do a water change.

What size is your Biorb? I'm worried that the rummy noses might get too big. Also, do you know what species the two 'catfish' are? There are literally hundreds of different 'catfish' and many of them won't be suited to your tank, I'm afraid.

You need to invest in good, liquid test kits (not the paper strips, they're very inaccurate) for ammonia and nitrite so you can monitor the water and change it if neccessary (ie, if the readings for either of those two substances go above 0.25ppm). That way you can keep your fish safe until your filter is cycled.

Hi the orb is 60l and we have gravel not media in the bottom dont know any one we can beg some media off any one in the derby area. Plus three big plants the cats Corydoras Serbian (thinnk that is the correct spelling)

 

[ZoddyZod]

if I recall correctly, the biorb system uses a form of zeolite that absorbs ammonia/nitrite instead of them being processed by bacteria, hence the money making suggestion from the manufacturer of replacing the media ever 4-6 weeks after it becomes exhausted (full).

 

[the_lock_man]

Sorry, to clarify, "media" is the various sponges, ceramic etc., that goes in your filter. The floor of the tank, in your case gravel, in others it's sand, is the "substrate."

You could try offering to pay for some from one of the local fish shops.

 

[merseychic]

Sorry, to clarify, "media" is the various sponges, ceramic etc., that goes in your filter. The floor of the tank, in your case gravel, in others it's sand, is the "substrate."

You could try offering to pay for some from one of the local fish shops.

yes I knew you meant the media in the filter not the substrate I was mentioning that we use gravel not cermainc media to enable us to have catfish as the gravel is a better medium for the food they require.

The odd thing is that all the Tetras had really red noses, no signs of distress no fin clamping rapid gill movements, rapid darting other than normal and where in full colour. I always believed that Tetras in trouble of unhappy dropped their colour like they did when they were transported. Thought we had different fish by the time we got home

thanks for help and advice

 

[Essjay]

The ceramic stuff is actually the biomedia. Since the biorb had an undergravel filter, I suppose ordinary gravel will perform the same function, as with a conventional UG. The rest of the filter has a sponge 'to trap the debris' and 'resin particles and natural stabilisers to remove toxic substances and keep the pH levels constant' - quotes from the manufacturers website. It doesn't say there, but I think I've read elsewhere that the resins etc are just zeolite (absorbs ammonia) and carbon, neither of which are necessary, and both of which need replacing on a regular basis. The sponge will also have some bacteria and just needs washing in old water taken from the tank - during a water change is the best time.
You could always replace the 'resin etc' with sponge, then you won't need to replace anything.

 

[Tizer]

You cant use gravel in a biorb, you have no surface area for the bacteria to thrive on as there is not enough water movement through the gravel, all you have is the sponge in the center that can host a small amount of beneficial bacteria. The standard rocks that come with the biorb have to be used for it to function correctly (mostly they allow better flow, thus more oxygen, but have a massive surface area for bacteria to colonise).

The filtration method in the bi0rbs is extremely bad, you would be better off removing the central tube and air pump, silicone up the hole and place a small standard internal filter into the tank .You could get one cycled up in a bucket if needed.

But the best advice i can give you, is to sell the tank on and buy a standard rectangular tank to keep your fish in. Biorbs look quite nice when new and clean, but they are a nightmare to keep that way and, like i said, have terrible/dated filtration. You can of course ignore the advice, as many do, but if you choose to act on it, you will never look back and view it as a mistake. I'd put money on it any day of the week.

On another point, if you have rummynose, they are to fast a schooling fish to keep in a bi0rb, its cruel, if you have corydora catfish (Sterbai's) which i think is what you are trying to describe, again, its cruel, they need far more space than a bi0rb can provide and ideally a nice sandy substrate for them to nuzzle around in to hunt for food. They also need to be kept in bigger groups as they also prefer their own kind in large numbers (6 minimum).

I do suggest you have a good rethink as i dont believe your tank will ever be able to cycle in its current setup, thus you will be doing 50% water changes every day to keep the toxins down and your fish alive. Best of luck.

 

[merseychic]

You cant use gravel in a biorb, you have no surface area for the bacteria to thrive on as there is not enough water movement through the gravel, all you have is the sponge in the center that can host a small amount of beneficial bacteria. The standard rocks that come with the biorb have to be used for it to function correctly (mostly they allow better flow, thus more oxygen, but have a massive surface area for bacteria to colonise).

The filtration method in the bi0rbs is extremely bad, you would be better off removing the central tube and air pump, silicone up the hole and place a small standard internal filter into the tank .You could get one cycled up in a bucket if needed.

But the best advice i can give you, is to sell the tank on and buy a standard rectangular tank to keep your fish in. Biorbs look quite nice when new and clean, but they are a nightmare to keep that way and, like i said, have terrible/dated filtration. You can of course ignore the advice, as many do, but if you choose to act on it, you will never look back and view it as a mistake. I'd put money on it any day of the week.

On another point, if you have rummynose, they are to fast a schooling fish to keep in a bi0rb, its cruel, if you have corydora catfish (Sterbai's) which i think is what you are trying to describe, again, its cruel, they need far more space than a bi0rb can provide and ideally a nice sandy substrate for them to nuzzle around in to hunt for food. They also need to be kept in bigger groups as they also prefer their own kind in large numbers (6 minimum).

I do suggest you have a good rethink as i dont believe your tank will ever be able to cycle in its current setup, thus you will be doing 50% water changes every day to keep the toxins down and your fish alive. Best of luck.

Amonia level o nitrite 0.4 all but one rummy nose now gone

 

[Tizer]

You cant use gravel in a biorb, you have no surface area for the bacteria to thrive on as there is not enough water movement through the gravel, all you have is the sponge in the center that can host a small amount of beneficial bacteria. The standard rocks that come with the biorb have to be used for it to function correctly (mostly they allow better flow, thus more oxygen, but have a massive surface area for bacteria to colonise).

The filtration method in the bi0rbs is extremely bad, you would be better off removing the central tube and air pump, silicone up the hole and place a small standard internal filter into the tank .You could get one cycled up in a bucket if needed.

But the best advice i can give you, is to sell the tank on and buy a standard rectangular tank to keep your fish in. Biorbs look quite nice when new and clean, but they are a nightmare to keep that way and, like i said, have terrible/dated filtration. You can of course ignore the advice, as many do, but if you choose to act on it, you will never look back and view it as a mistake. I'd put money on it any day of the week.

On another point, if you have rummynose, they are to fast a schooling fish to keep in a bi0rb, its cruel, if you have corydora catfish (Sterbai's) which i think is what you are trying to describe, again, its cruel, they need far more space than a bi0rb can provide and ideally a nice sandy substrate for them to nuzzle around in to hunt for food. They also need to be kept in bigger groups as they also prefer their own kind in large numbers (6 minimum).

I do suggest you have a good rethink as i dont believe your tank will ever be able to cycle in its current setup, thus you will be doing 50% water changes every day to keep the toxins down and your fish alive. Best of luck.

Amonia level o nitrite 0.4 all but one rummy nose now gone

50% water change to get that down to 0.2 then retest in 24 hours.

 

[merseychic]

You cant use gravel in a biorb, you have no surface area for the bacteria to thrive on as there is not enough water movement through the gravel, all you have is the sponge in the center that can host a small amount of beneficial bacteria. The standard rocks that come with the biorb have to be used for it to function correctly (mostly they allow better flow, thus more oxygen, but have a massive surface area for bacteria to colonise).

The filtration method in the bi0rbs is extremely bad, you would be better off removing the central tube and air pump, silicone up the hole and place a small standard internal filter into the tank .You could get one cycled up in a bucket if needed.

But the best advice i can give you, is to sell the tank on and buy a standard rectangular tank to keep your fish in. Biorbs look quite nice when new and clean, but they are a nightmare to keep that way and, like i said, have terrible/dated filtration. You can of course ignore the advice, as many do, but if you choose to act on it, you will never look back and view it as a mistake. I'd put money on it any day of the week.

On another point, if you have rummynose, they are to fast a schooling fish to keep in a bi0rb, its cruel, if you have corydora catfish (Sterbai's) which i think is what you are trying to describe, again, its cruel, they need far more space than a bi0rb can provide and ideally a nice sandy substrate for them to nuzzle around in to hunt for food. They also need to be kept in bigger groups as they also prefer their own kind in large numbers (6 minimum).

I do suggest you have a good rethink as i dont believe your tank will ever be able to cycle in its current setup, thus you will be doing 50% water changes every day to keep the toxins down and your fish alive. Best of luck.

Amonia level o nitrite 0.4 all but one rummy nose now gone

50% water change to get that down to 0.2 then retest in 24 hours.

was advise no more than 15 % so as not to stress fish and to do again tomorrow then retest 24 after that

 

[Tizer]

You cant use gravel in a biorb, you have no surface area for the bacteria to thrive on as there is not enough water movement through the gravel, all you have is the sponge in the center that can host a small amount of beneficial bacteria. The standard rocks that come with the biorb have to be used for it to function correctly (mostly they allow better flow, thus more oxygen, but have a massive surface area for bacteria to colonise).

The filtration method in the bi0rbs is extremely bad, you would be better off removing the central tube and air pump, silicone up the hole and place a small standard internal filter into the tank .You could get one cycled up in a bucket if needed.

But the best advice i can give you, is to sell the tank on and buy a standard rectangular tank to keep your fish in. Biorbs look quite nice when new and clean, but they are a nightmare to keep that way and, like i said, have terrible/dated filtration. You can of course ignore the advice, as many do, but if you choose to act on it, you will never look back and view it as a mistake. I'd put money on it any day of the week.

On another point, if you have rummynose, they are to fast a schooling fish to keep in a bi0rb, its cruel, if you have corydora catfish (Sterbai's) which i think is what you are trying to describe, again, its cruel, they need far more space than a bi0rb can provide and ideally a nice sandy substrate for them to nuzzle around in to hunt for food. They also need to be kept in bigger groups as they also prefer their own kind in large numbers (6 minimum).

I do suggest you have a good rethink as i dont believe your tank will ever be able to cycle in its current setup, thus you will be doing 50% water changes every day to keep the toxins down and your fish alive. Best of luck.

Amonia level o nitrite 0.4 all but one rummy nose now gone

50% water change to get that down to 0.2 then retest in 24 hours.

was advise no more than 15 % so as not to stress fish and to do again tomorrow then retest 24 after that

Who ever gave you the advice is wrong. A reading of 0.4 is like you standing in a burning building trying to breath air, but instead you are breathing in thick smoke slowly dying. Thats what nitrite posioning is like for a fish. A 15% water change will not reduce that figure enough, ideally you should change 75% and get it to 0.1 and allow it to creep up to 0.25 during the next 24 hours and then do another water change to keep it hovering between 0.1 and 0.25 while the filter cycles. This allows the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate to feed and grow. A water change is not stressful to fish when you temperature match it to avoid shocking them (remember to add dechlorinator). Mixing hot and cold water from your tap is fine and trust me, its the best thing for them. gogogo

Anyway, until you address the problem of having no media for the bacteria to colonise, you will be doing a 50% water change until end of days just to keep the fish alive.

 

[merseychic]

You cant use gravel in a biorb, you have no surface area for the bacteria to thrive on as there is not enough water movement through the gravel, all you have is the sponge in the center that can host a small amount of beneficial bacteria. The standard rocks that come with the biorb have to be used for it to function correctly (mostly they allow better flow, thus more oxygen, but have a massive surface area for bacteria to colonise).

The filtration method in the bi0rbs is extremely bad, you would be better off removing the central tube and air pump, silicone up the hole and place a small standard internal filter into the tank .You could get one cycled up in a bucket if needed.

But the best advice i can give you, is to sell the tank on and buy a standard rectangular tank to keep your fish in. Biorbs look quite nice when new and clean, but they are a nightmare to keep that way and, like i said, have terrible/dated filtration. You can of course ignore the advice, as many do, but if you choose to act on it, you will never look back and view it as a mistake. I'd put money on it any day of the week.

On another point, if you have rummynose, they are to fast a schooling fish to keep in a bi0rb, its cruel, if you have corydora catfish (Sterbai's) which i think is what you are trying to describe, again, its cruel, they need far more space than a bi0rb can provide and ideally a nice sandy substrate for them to nuzzle around in to hunt for food. They also need to be kept in bigger groups as they also prefer their own kind in large numbers (6 minimum).

I do suggest you have a good rethink as i dont believe your tank will ever be able to cycle in its current setup, thus you will be doing 50% water changes every day to keep the toxins down and your fish alive. Best of luck.

Amonia level o nitrite 0.4 all but one rummy nose now gone

50% water change to get that down to 0.2 then retest in 24 hours.

was advise no more than 15 % so as not to stress fish and to do again tomorrow then retest 24 after that

Who ever gave you the advice is wrong. A reading of 0.4 is like you standing in a burning building trying to breath air, but instead you are breathing in thick smoke slowly dying. Thats what nitrite posioning is like for a fish. A 15% water change will not reduce that figure enough, ideally you should change 75% and get it to 0.1 and allow it to creep up to 0.25 during the next 24 hours and then do another water change to keep it hovering between 0.1 and 0.25 while the filter cycles. This allows the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate to feed and grow. A water change is not stressful to fish when you temperature match it to avoid shocking them (remember to add dechlorinator). Mixing hot and cold water from your tap is fine and trust me, its the best thing for them. gogogo

Anyway, until you address the problem of having no media for the bacteria to colonise, you will be doing a 50% water change until end of days just to keep the fish alive.

Thanks for all the advice the 2 25% water changes had reduced the nitrites down to just over .1 and we bought a 65l Aqua one tank and have set it up, added 50% new water, got it to temp added 50% old water from old tank, plus plants and media from the filter including the sponge some of the old gravel and tranferred fish. So far so good nitrites at .1 no amonia testing twice a day. Poor Rummy nose on his own but seems to be a fighter. Question Do we add more Rummy nose to prevent Billy as we have called him or will he be ok on his own till we stabalise the tank?

 

[the_lock_man]

You need to stabilise the tank first, make sure it is fully cycled (in your case, that means 0ppm ammonia and nitrite for a week with no water changes).

Which AquaOne tank did you get, the semi-circular one?