Dwarf Puffer Advice Please

[CherryDanio]

Hi again. After asking for inspiration for our 85L tank on here before I think we have settled on dwarf puffers. We keep finding conflicting information on stocking though. To all you dwarf puffer experts out there, would this tank be suitable for 2-3 dwarf puffers and 3 ottos? Should be alter the numbers or just forget the ottos all together? Also we are likely to have a large number of cherry shrimp in the near future. Some people have said adult shrimp will be fine in there, others have said they will make a fine meal in there. Any opinions on this?

Please bare in mind this tank has only just been set up and so is still cycling, the plants will hopefully have grown a fair bit by the time we get any fish. Thanks in advance for any advice

 

[BigTom]

Firstly, I'm fairly sure that the two larger plants on the right hand side aren't actually aquatic and will eventually rot and foul the tank, take them back to where you bought them and request a refund.

85L should be plenty of room for 3 puffers. As for cheery shrimp, my personal experience is that baby ones get eaten whilst the medium sized ones and adults are perfectly safe... however my DPs are still a little way from adulthood so that could change as they mature. The best bet is probably to add the shrimp first, that way there's less chance of the DPs taking a nibble and identifying them as food.

3 otos should be fine in terms of stocking levels, although conventional wisdom is that they tend to do better in groups of 5+, which I reckon you could probably get away with. However, be aware that otos (and shrimp) are very susceptible to poor water conditions, so with all the waste that the DPs will be producing, make sure you keep up with water testing and changes. I would also add more plants to help with the takeup of waste nutrients.

 

[CherryDanio]

Oh no! You mean the ones with the white and green leaves? How weird. The shop we bought them from is usually very good and they have them in all their tanks I will buy some replacements and check again with the shop. Hope the tank looks ok apart from that. I suppose we could go for 5 ottos but i'm cautious about overstocking. The tank just doesn't look that big to me (I have checked the measurments and it is definatly 85L). The filter is also faily hefty and we are fastidious about water changes.

 

[Davo86]

In fairness you have a 22G tank so could easily add more than just 3 puffers and 3 otos, however with multiple puffers you do need to add more coverage so that lines of sight between them is constantly broken, Some small carpet plants in the front would look good IMO. Also as said you would need to keep on top of the maintenance.

Once the tank is matured I see no reason why you couldn't have 3 puffers, 5 otocinclus, and 5 pygmy Corydoras and a colony of cherry shrimp

 

[BigTom]

Once the tank is matured I see no reason why you couldn't have 3 puffers, 5 otocinclus, and 5 pygmy Corydoras and a colony of cherry shrimp

My experience with DPs and corys is that the puffers shred their fins in next to no time. I seriously wouldn't recommend it. Agree you could probably get away with more puffers though, 4 or 5 should work out OK with enough plant cover and good maintenance.

 

[CherryDanio]

Once the tank is matured I see no reason why you couldn't have 3 puffers, 5 otocinclus, and 5 pygmy Corydoras and a colony of cherry shrimp

My experience with DPs and corys is that the puffers shred their fins in next to no time. I seriously wouldn't recommend it. Agree you could probably get away with more puffers though, 4 or 5 should work out OK with enough plant cover and good maintenance.

Think 3 DP's and 5 ottos is the way forward for us. We'l see if we have any shrimp large enough when we get the puffers (think one of ours is about to drop sprogs).
Anyone else got an opinion on wether those plants are actualy aquatic or not? I'm going to be seriously annoyed with the shop if they aren't...

 

[BigTom]

Yup, I just went and checked in the planted forum, it's Dracaena sanderiana and is a non-aquatic marsh plant, although some people have had them survive a while underwater they tend to just rot eventually.

[URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...aena+sanderiana"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...aena+sanderiana[/URL]

Oh, one last thing, try and make sure you get more female puffers than males if they're old enough to sex. Females tend to be fatter and have little black freckles on them as well as the main spots. Males have little crinkles behind the eyes and a dark stripe under their belley when mature, but the chances are these won't be visible when you buy them as juveniles.

 

[schismy007]

Hi again. After asking for inspiration for our 85L tank on here before I think we have settled on dwarf puffers. We keep finding conflicting information on stocking though. To all you dwarf puffer experts out there, would this tank be suitable for 2-3 dwarf puffers and 3 ottos? Should be alter the numbers or just forget the ottos all together? Also we are likely to have a large number of cherry shrimp in the near future. Some people have said adult shrimp will be fine in there, others have said they will make a fine meal in there. Any opinions on this?

Please bare in mind this tank has only just been set up and so is still cycling, the plants will hopefully have grown a fair bit by the time we get any fish. Thanks in advance for any advice

I used to have 5 dwarf puffers in a 50-liter tank (they've all been moved now) and they were in with cherry shrimp, and believe it or not, the shrimp would boss the puffers around. I kept expecting the puffers to eat the shrimp, but it never happened.

Just so you can make a good choice, I've currently got 7 puffers in my community tank, which has gouramis, 3 corydoras and a range of other fish, and my puffers don't bother any of them. I've found that if you have alot of plants, then the puffers hide in there and I think it cuts down on their aggression because it cuts off their line of sight. Puffers are very much an "out of sight, out of mind" type of fish. I also have dwarf puffers in another tank too, I've got about 15 in total and they are so much fun to watch. They actually play chase games with each other and they aren't being nasty or aggressive, looks like they are playing to me.

Good luck with your little puffs!

 

[CherryDanio]

Thanks for all the advice folks We have removed those plants, added a whole bunch more and should be getting some moss (forget the name but definatly aquatic ) thorugh the post tomorrow. I also took a trip to b&q and bought a few 50p terrecotta plant pots which I have cut holes in and put upside down as little caves. If I may though, one final question....

I would have thought that the best way to try and ensure as little friction as possible between the otto's and the dp's would be to have the otto's in first so they know all the hidey holes to escape to. Having though about this further though I'm not sure this would work. From what I've read online otto's need a well established tank with lots of algae. If we were to introduce the otto's several months down the line when we have lots of the green stuff would they still all get on? Or given the amount of plants would I be better buying the otto's first anyway (by the time the tank is cycled as it is a second hand tank there is a chance there will be some algae anyway).

 

[schismy007]

Thanks for all the advice folks We have removed those plants, added a whole bunch more and should be getting some moss (forget the name but definatly aquatic ) thorugh the post tomorrow. I also took a trip to b&q and bought a few 50p terrecotta plant pots which I have cut holes in and put upside down as little caves. If I may though, one final question....

I would have thought that the best way to try and ensure as little friction as possible between the otto's and the dp's would be to have the otto's in first so they know all the hidey holes to escape to. Having though about this further though I'm not sure this would work. From what I've read online otto's need a well established tank with lots of algae. If we were to introduce the otto's several months down the line when we have lots of the green stuff would they still all get on? Or given the amount of plants would I be better buying the otto's first anyway (by the time the tank is cycled as it is a second hand tank there is a chance there will be some algae anyway).

I've always read that Oto's don't seem to live very long, they need massive amounts of algae, and I would think that having more than one would mean that you would need a great amount of algae to keep them satiated. I've never bothered with them, although I'm always reading how they are the perfect tankmate for puffers. I've had all sorts in with my puffers. Right now we've got some algae-eating gobies and they are doing a fine job of keeping the tank clean.

Good luck no matter how you go!

 

[CherryDanio]

Thanks for all the advice folks We have removed those plants, added a whole bunch more and should be getting some moss (forget the name but definatly aquatic ) thorugh the post tomorrow. I also took a trip to b&q and bought a few 50p terrecotta plant pots which I have cut holes in and put upside down as little caves. If I may though, one final question....

I would have thought that the best way to try and ensure as little friction as possible between the otto's and the dp's would be to have the otto's in first so they know all the hidey holes to escape to. Having though about this further though I'm not sure this would work. From what I've read online otto's need a well established tank with lots of algae. If we were to introduce the otto's several months down the line when we have lots of the green stuff would they still all get on? Or given the amount of plants would I be better buying the otto's first anyway (by the time the tank is cycled as it is a second hand tank there is a chance there will be some algae anyway).

I've always read that Oto's don't seem to live very long, they need massive amounts of algae, and I would think that having more than one would mean that you would need a great amount of algae to keep them satiated. I've never bothered with them, although I'm always reading how they are the perfect tankmate for puffers. I've had all sorts in with my puffers. Right now we've got some algae-eating gobies and they are doing a fine job of keeping the tank clean.

Good luck no matter how you go!

Thanks Schismy I have been hearing recently about otto's being 'difficult'. Given that I still haven't recovered from losing my hillstream loaches (Watson and Crick... I am a super geek and I am not ashamed) I am beginning to be a bit reluctant about having such fragile fish. I will be looking closely at the fish you have kept with dwarf puffers and reassessing my options. Maybe we will still go with otto's but it's great to ave other options too

 

[schismy007]

Thanks for all the advice folks We have removed those plants, added a whole bunch more and should be getting some moss (forget the name but definatly aquatic ) thorugh the post tomorrow. I also took a trip to b&q and bought a few 50p terrecotta plant pots which I have cut holes in and put upside down as little caves. If I may though, one final question....

I would have thought that the best way to try and ensure as little friction as possible between the otto's and the dp's would be to have the otto's in first so they know all the hidey holes to escape to. Having though about this further though I'm not sure this would work. From what I've read online otto's need a well established tank with lots of algae. If we were to introduce the otto's several months down the line when we have lots of the green stuff would they still all get on? Or given the amount of plants would I be better buying the otto's first anyway (by the time the tank is cycled as it is a second hand tank there is a chance there will be some algae anyway).

I've always read that Oto's don't seem to live very long, they need massive amounts of algae, and I would think that having more than one would mean that you would need a great amount of algae to keep them satiated. I've never bothered with them, although I'm always reading how they are the perfect tankmate for puffers. I've had all sorts in with my puffers. Right now we've got some algae-eating gobies and they are doing a fine job of keeping the tank clean.

Good luck no matter how you go!

Thanks Schismy I have been hearing recently about otto's being 'difficult'. Given that I still haven't recovered from losing my hillstream loaches (Watson and Crick... I am a super geek and I am not ashamed) I am beginning to be a bit reluctant about having such fragile fish. I will be looking closely at the fish you have kept with dwarf puffers and reassessing my options. Maybe we will still go with otto's but it's great to ave other options too

If the Oto's work for you, then I am very happy for you. I cannot really say because as I said, I've avoided getting them due to what I've read about them. Apparently it's hard to keep them for any length of time.

To be honest, I was even a little reluctant to get these algae-eating gobies because the tank they are in is not that old (not quite a month), but I've been supplementing them with algae wafers, so maybe you could so something like that too, although I'm not sure if Oto's will eat algae wafers. Hopefully you will hear from someone that actually has experience with Oto's.

I had some of those Hillstream loaches months back, but I found out that they are really cooler water fish and so they did not live very long in my community tank, which, of course, is tropical. They are interesting to look at though, the way they slide along doing their thing. I think that's part of the problem nowdays, there are so many fish in fish stores, but they all need very different environments in order to thrive, and that's just unrealistic in most community tanks.

I will be interested to hear what you finally decide on and how things go once you have the little DP's.

Best of luck!

 

[jennybugs]

It's always interesting to see other people's interpretations of what is suitable as a tankmate for dwarf puffers

I'll now just add my 'bit'...I have only ever tried dwarf puffers with otocinclus and amano shrimp. Dwarf puffers as they get older and reach sexual maturity turn in to mini velociraptors. This is why you must have lots of planting in any puffer tank that will intentionally hold more than one DP.

DPs will 'taste' anything that comes in their way to see if it is edible. As a general rule of thumb, it is best (not just in my opinion, but others experience too) not to mix them with other fish. Otos are small enough and fast enough to be able to hide and get out of the way of DPs, which is why some people have success with this pairing, me included. Otos in themselves do indeed like a mature tank with a constant supply of algae to graze on. They are delicate (not difficult) fish and don't travel well, which is why some people find them hard to keep.

If you want to try otos in your tank but want it to mature first (a good idea btw), then before adding otos to the tank, remove the puffers, change the tank around a bit, add the otos and when they are settled then put the DPs back in the tank. This way they won't notice the otos so much and will think they are in new territory and remain quite peaceful (hopefully). None of this is gospel, though, just something you can try if you want.

I wouldn't like to risk any other type of fish as a tank mate for DPs. That's not to say it can't work in some situations, just that I wouldn't try it - there's a great saying I like to remember "Never trust a Puffer"

PS In a tank the size you have, you could have more than 3 DPs. 5 Gallons a puffer (a minimum of 20L per fish) is a good rule of thumb.

 

[Ficious]

im sry if this is too late...but i thought i would just throw in my 2 cents on dps


my story is very simple. ive got just one dp named Henry in a 5 gallon tank with 2 otos and 4-5 cherry shrimp. i havent had one death yet of anything...the tank is heavily planted and everyone hangs out in the front. the shrimp graze happily and the ottos are buddies never leaving the others side. i too use to be afraid to keep otos because they didnt last in my large communitys, but i havent had anything problems with the two at all. they are both growing and are about 8 months old. i dont hardly feed them...an algae wafer once every three days or so. the dward puffer is very friendly and as i write this am trying to feed him earthworm because im out of frozen foods! the dp wants nothing to do with it but ive got all 5...(i now know i have 5) cherry shrimps are munching away at the cut off area of the worm.


i have enough filtration for a 15 gallon and do weekly water changes of about 30%. good luck!!