Dwarf Frog Mishap

[Essjay]

To start at the beginning -

I have 2 dwarf african frogs. Up until 2 days ago they shared a tank with my betta and a bumblebee nerite. But the frogs kept chasing the betta, and the betta had taken to stalking the frogs, so I set up a new tank with the betta and snail in the original tank and the frogs in the new one. I split the media from the first tank.

This morning I picked up the plastic box we put the recycling in ready to take it out to the garage, and found one of the frogs under it. This is about 15 feet away from the tank. As the kitchen has a vinyl floor covering, he didn't have any carpet fluff on him but he was dry, though not shrivelled. I've put him back in the tank where he looks OK, though I did check the water and found 0.25 ammonia - obviously I didn't give the frogs enough media as the betta's tank is still zero.

Besides doing a large water change (and putting filter wool in the hole in the lid where the wires go through) is there anything else I can do for the frog other than keep an eye on him?

 

[Jenste]

To start at the beginning -

I have 2 dwarf african frogs. Up until 2 days ago they shared a tank with my betta and a bumblebee nerite. But the frogs kept chasing the betta, and the betta had taken to stalking the frogs, so I set up a new tank with the betta and snail in the original tank and the frogs in the new one. I split the media from the first tank.

This morning I picked up the plastic box we put the recycling in ready to take it out to the garage, and found one of the frogs under it. This is about 15 feet away from the tank. As the kitchen has a vinyl floor covering, he didn't have any carpet fluff on him but he was dry, though not shrivelled. I've put him back in the tank where he looks OK, though I did check the water and found 0.25 ammonia - obviously I didn't give the frogs enough media as the betta's tank is still zero.

Besides doing a large water change (and putting filter wool in the hole in the lid where the wires go through) is there anything else I can do for the frog other than keep an eye on him?

for dehydrated frogs you want to avoid tossing them back into deep water - an african dwarf and african claweds frog body is primarily composed of water - when they dehydrate their muscles and organs dry out, leaving them weak.

A frog who has been dehydrated may not have the strength to swim to the surface repeatedly to breath and trying to eat and digest food can kill them. I recommend moving the frog into shallow water for the next few days and hold off on feeding this frog for a week.

 

[Essjay]

Thanks jenste. Is 3.5 inches water too deep? That's the lowest I can get the water level while still covering the filter (elite mini). The plants are now collapsed so if he has the strength to crawl he can get to the surface rather then swimming up. I had intended not feeding them for a while with the ammonia going up - I'm assuming that's why this one felt the need to escape?

When I removed the water after I read your reply, both frogs showed interest in what I was up to, so he (I think) isn't at immediate death's door. But he does have some paler patches of skin. Is this to be expected after his ordeal?

 

[Jenste]

Thanks jenste. Is 3.5 inches water too deep? That's the lowest I can get the water level while still covering the filter (elite mini). The plants are now collapsed so if he has the strength to crawl he can get to the surface rather then swimming up. I had intended not feeding them for a while with the ammonia going up - I'm assuming that's why this one felt the need to escape?

When I removed the water after I read your reply, both frogs showed interest in what I was up to, so he (I think) isn't at immediate death's door. But he does have some paler patches of skin. Is this to be expected after his ordeal?

You don't have to drain the whole tank - - just put him in a tupperware container with about an inch of water for a bit - - No need to stress your other frog out by disturbing the main tank.

ADF and ACF do not have many bones - they are primarily muscles and cartilage so dehydration is very serious. Muscles and organs mostly water so dehydration means they cannot function as intended.

It is always better the be safe than sorry when it comes to these little guys.

The faded patches could be dry skin that may or may not flake off. Nothing to be overly concerned about, just make sure no redding appears.

 

[Essjay]

Thanks for your help jenste. I've filled the tank back up and put the escapee in a tub as you recommended. He is now standing on the bottom with his nose just sticking out of the water so he should have no problems breathing. I'll keep him there for a week or so, not feed him, and watch for signs of reddening. I'll also keep an eye on the ammonia in the tank as I'm pretty sure this is what caused him to climb out, though the other one seems unaffected.

Another question if you don't mind, the frogs are now in a 17 litre tank (4.5 galls) - is this big enough for two long term?

 

[Jenste]

that should be fine long term for the pair. I do not recommend any other tank mates - this should keep both frogs quite happy

just curious, what do you feed them? There is a lot of misunderstanding and bad info out there about feeding.

 

[Essjay]

Their main diet is zoo med frog and tadpole food. They also get bloodworm, daphnia or brine shrimp once a week, whichever I'm feeding to my 3 fish tanks.

I wasn't going to get anything else to go in with the frogs after the problems with the betta, I just wanted to make sure i
the tank was big enough for the 2 of them. The frogs and betta were OK together for ages, then the frogs started chasing after the betta when they could smell food, and I caught one of them latched onto his tail being dragged around the tank. And the betta started stalking the frogs, flaring at them then biting them when they ignored him. I had adapted an upside down plantpot so the frogs could get into it but the betta couldn't and put their food in that, so they weren't going hungry.
So no more fish with the frogs, I've learned my lesson. The betta has also started building a bubble nest since the frogs went.

 

[Jenste]

perfect diet and yes - - despite what many people try, species only tanks really work best for them, for both species involved.

Sounds like you are doing good - let me know how your frog does!

 

[Essjay]

Quick update and a couple of questions.

The frog is doing well. He's still alive, no redness and is becoming more active - I've been doing daily water changes in the tank, and today he came out from under cover while I doing it. He is floating in the tank in a small mesh container lined with very fine net and he has some silk leaves that came off an old plant laid flat in there to hide under. If he stands up against the side his nose is out of the water so he can breathe quite easily.

He hasn't had any food since last Thursday, but today there was quite a lot of poo in his container. Up till now there has only been a small amount. Is this anything to worry about?
And since I've been doing daily water changes on the whole tank, I've realised it's 14 litres not 17 (3.75 galls not 4.5). Is this still OK for the 2 of them?

 

[Jenste]

Quick update and a couple of questions.

The frog is doing well. He's still alive, no redness and is becoming more active - I've been doing daily water changes in the tank, and today he came out from under cover while I doing it. He is floating in the tank in a small mesh container lined with very fine net and he has some silk leaves that came off an old plant laid flat in there to hide under. If he stands up against the side his nose is out of the water so he can breathe quite easily.

He hasn't had any food since last Thursday, but today there was quite a lot of poo in his container. Up till now there has only been a small amount. Is this anything to worry about?
And since I've been doing daily water changes on the whole tank, I've realised it's 14 litres not 17 (3.75 galls not 4.5). Is this still OK for the 2 of them?

If he was dehydrated his organs probably weren't preforming at their highest level - including his digestive track - - he probably had a bunch "stored up" and was only able to pass it at that point.

the 3.75 gallons is a little below the minimum encouraged for two - - 5 gallons is usually the recommended minimum (4.5 gal was close). Keep an eye on the levels and what are the dimensions? If it is significantly longer and wider than it is tall, you should be OK. Considering they are bottom dwellers, floor space is much more important than depth.

 

[Essjay]

The tank is 15 inches long x 8.5 inches wide x 8.5 inches tall, so it is longer than tall.
I do have a 25 litre tank (about 6.5 galls) - it's my quarantine tank - but I have a problem in the shape of my husband. He only put up with the small tank thinking it was temporary till the betta is better (damaged tail from the frogs), I haven't told him it'll be permanent yet.



Edited for spelling!

 

[Jenste]

Yea my hubby restricts my tanks too - -

Now he wants me to cut back. When we moved, and he experienced the hassle of the move, he decided it was time for the hobby to cut back . We want kids in a couple years and he argues that it is easier to cut back now when we have time, then when the kids start coming and I am forced to.

So my 13 frogs are being cut in half (the numbers, not the frogs!) and my tanks are being taken to 1/3.

It will end up being reduced to 3 tanks - my 72 gallon ACF community tank (females being rehomed to prevent further breeding), a 10 gallon for my "special ACF" (has a twisted spine), and a tank for my axolotl.


It stinks and trying to rehome my adults and the rest of my offspring when having to clear out is tough ... normally I hold onto the babies and sort out the good homes from the jokes - now its just first come, first serve.

So I understand the tough hubbies lol.

 

[Essjay]

Moving house is what I worry about. Hubby wants to buy a bungalow when he retires, but bungalows are in such short supply that no-one will accept an offer unless you've sold your own property. Which means we'll have to sell this house, move to a rented house, then wait for a bungalow to come on the market and move again. He's already told me it won't be a problem as I'll have to get rid of all my tanks soon because I'll be too old to do the water changes in a year or two........

Maybe he'll let me keep a couple of small ones including the frogs!

 

[coldcazzie]

He's already told me it won't be a problem as I'll have to get rid of all my tanks soon because I'll be too old to do the water changes in a year or two........

If my hubby said that to me in seriousness I'd slap him!

Although, depending on your tank sizes, if you're doing water changes with buckets you could switch to hoses - it makes life much easier and there's no heavy lifting. My hubby likes it since I changed to hoses because he doesn't get roped in to move additional buckets around when I'm in a rush! Although using the hose does mean he can't wash up while I'm filling the tanks back up again, so I guess there's pros and cons

 

[Essjay]

I think his main problem is that he doesn't like fish. Though he does talk to my betta when he thinks no-one is looking. I sort of conned him into having 2 tanks - when I upgraded from 60 to 125 litres, he though it was a replacement not an addition. Then a betta went in the QT - and stayed there, so I had to get a new QT. Now the frogs have their own tank so he's faced with four tanks when he only ever expected one.
He does drive me to fish shops when I ask as I don't drive, so I'll put up with the odd comment about my bad back. I moan at him about his ever expanding CD collection!