Dusty Tank

[mdallen]

Hiya all

Been using the search button but been struggling to find a answer so thought id try posting.

I have a Juwel Rio 300 with sand in the bottom, about 15 natural plants, AllPondsSolution 1200 filter, Pluval Plus 4 filter, about 25 tropical fish.

Problem is im getting a lot of very fine particles floating about in the tank all the time, i tried to take a picture of it which failed to highlight them as there that time, i was told they might be very fine air bubbles from the spray bar so i lowered that but no luck. Ive tried just using the external filter but no luck so added a old plus 4 to see if i could boost it but still no luck.

I dont know if the extra filter is making to much current but figured if im cycling more water i should be removing more bits. Im doing 25% water changes twice a week and got Wharf to test my water as they said as the tank is only 6 weeks old i might have a anmonia spike but water is ok.

I've never had any problems with bits in the tank with older tanks and this is really frustrating as im use to crystal clear water. Im wanting to blame this all ponds filter as its the 1st one ive had but am i pointing the finger in the wrong place ? I was given a old ornament that i had in a previous tank but when i moved house and sold the tank my mother stuck in the garden for a year. Ive given it a good stub etc but could it be that breaking down ? (no visible signs of it though or cant see bits coming off)

Ive managed to take some pics but not sure how to add them here so ive put them on my personal space (hope this is not against the rules)
http/www.mdallen.com/1.JPG
http/www.mdallen.com/2.JPG
http/www.mdallen.com/3.JPG
http/www.mdallen.com/4.JPG

Oh and im only feeding every other day with kings british tropical flake food and some bloodworm for the clowns.


I welcome any advice you all have please please please

 

[mattlee]

Hi, was the tank cycled before adding any fish? if not after 6 weeks it could well be a bacterial bloom. if it is then it should get better with water changes and time as its a type of bacteria colonising in your tank.
if your tank wasnt cycled before the fish were added then you will be in a fish in cycle which im affraid takes large daily water changes until the right bacteria has grown enough to cope with the bioload of your fish. on a 300L tank this can be quite a mission as 50-75% changes everyday may be needed to keep the ammonia and then nitrite at 0.
i take it if other people test your water for you that you dont have a testerkit yourself? if not i would go and buy 1 straight away and get a liquid based one not the test strips as they are very unreliable and inaccurate.

if Wharf tested your water for you did they confirm that there was an ammonia spike? or any nitrite in the water?
have you added any new fish recently?

 

[mdallen]

Hi, was the tank cycled before adding any fish? if not after 6 weeks it could well be a bacterial bloom. if it is then it should get better with water changes and time as its a type of bacteria colonising in your tank.
if your tank wasnt cycled before the fish were added then you will be in a fish in cycle which im affraid takes large daily water changes until the right bacteria has grown enough to cope with the bioload of your fish. on a 300L tank this can be quite a mission as 50-75% changes everyday may be needed to keep the ammonia and then nitrite at 0.
i take it if other people test your water for you that you dont have a testerkit yourself? if not i would go and buy 1 straight away and get a liquid based one not the test strips as they are very unreliable and inaccurate.

if Wharf tested your water for you did they confirm that there was an ammonia spike? or any nitrite in the water?
have you added any new fish recently?

Hi
I just did what ive always done when i set it up, cleaned gravel etc, filled it with water, added some plants, waited a week then added a few fish (about 6 if i remember), left it for another week then slowly kept adding a few more over the next few weeks.

Wharf said the water was spot on so im guessing there was no problems in any of the tests they did (i think they do about 5-6 for a quid). I do have a nitrite test kit and that stays practically clear at zero. I recently added some clown loaches as the water checks all came back clear.

As a experiment i lifted up one of the large stones that came with the tank and seemed to get some small bits and dust off it, not sure if it was just whats built up on it or if its breaking down. as pictured in number 5

Picture 6 is the ornament that was in the garden for a year but when i rub that hard in the tank nothing seems to come off it. As the water seems to be fine im very tempted to pull out off the old ornaments and replace them with fresh rock (from LFS of course).

http/www.mdallen.com/5.JPG
http/www.mdallen.com/6.JPG

 

[mattlee]

ok you need to read this -
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=175355
it should help you understand about the cycling of a filter. you are currently in the middle of a fish in cycle which basically means that the filter hasnt yet got the colonies of bacteria on it that will turn the ammonia produced by the fish and uneaten food into nitrite and then into nitrate. the ammonia and nitrite are very very toxic and will damage or kill the fish, maybe not instantly and some fish are more hardy/ tolerant to it than others but it will still damage them internally. this is why when doing a fish in cycle daily water changes are needed to get the levels back to 0, anything above 0 is poisoning the fish. nitrates are not as bad and can reach quite high levels before they become toxic but with weekly water changes when the tank/filter is cycled these levels will be reduced.
i would seriously advise getting your own test kit there are many available and most people on here seem to use API freshwater masterkit but there are others available. you can get these for about £17 delivered and they will last you for ages once the tank is set up safely, they are about £30 in the fish shops
until you can get a testkit to be safe i would recommend 50% water changes everyday. when you have a testkit then you can see what % water needs to be changed from the results. for example if you get ammonia reading at 1ppm then a 50% water change will half the level to 0.5ppm, this is still deadly for the fish so another 50% water change would/should reduce it down to 0 and safe for the fish. also test your tap water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates as some people get these present in their tap water. mine just contains nitrate at 10ppm so without chemicals or lots of live plants that will use nitrates to grow i will never get them any lower.
good luck with the tank and fish, hope ive helped

 

[mdallen]

Thanks, i do have a nitrite test kit and thats reading basically zero and i know i dont have a issue with ammonia as i got wharf to check it as they thought it might of been that, but i do welcome and thank you for your advice and intent to get a master kit when i can offer. Though i often think these kits just tend to worry most poeple and its easier and safer to just pop down to wharf and pay a quid for there tests / advice if they see anything wrong.

I'll go read the link you read me though now and ive removed the rocks that im guessing might be part of the problem as well, will see if it settles down in next few days

Just to add i think i'll get the api master kit on friday as if you subscribe to practical fishkeeping mag for a year you get the test kit free so as i need the kit it seems a good time to subscribe

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum MDallen.
You are unlikely to still be in a fish in cycle situation given your nitrite readings and the time involved. What that leaves us looking at is a need for better particulate filtration. I have no experience with your particular model 1200 filter but if you can put a layer of filter floss at the outlet end it would help polish the particulate from the water. The 4+ will do nothing to control fine particles using the media that comes with it. I use one in my 40 gallon long and can only control particulate in the tank with careful gravel cleanings and no disturbance of the substrate. Filter flow can indeed cause fine particles to float around in the water. Until I changed the filter in this tank, I was getting a nice sand dune effect in this tank from too much flow.

Nothing I did made it settle out until I changed to a lower flow filter setup. The end result looked better to my eye.

 

[mdallen]

Thanks for the replies, ive been messing with the filteration, ive kept the external running like it should but ive changed the 4+ from the foam filters to a filter wool and that seems to of made it a lot better apart from when i feed them then it takes a hour or so to settle down again.
I bought a 5 meter piece ( http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160242317261&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT ) so it should last me a while, they sent me the wrong thickness and want me to pay to return it, dont see why i should be out of pocket for there mistake. Anyway i'll see how it goes in the 4+.

Ive also took off the spray bar as it seemed to really take a lot of the flow away and have aimed the outlets from both filters slightly down, it seems to be keeping the bottom of the tank tidy and slowly pushing the muck towards the intakes.