dry ferts

[simonbrown403]

Doing some research in to planted aquarium, as i,m thinking or starting one up for a show tank with my discus and some cardanals.

I,ve just read the pined artical by gf225 and zig's, it was realy informative, some articals can be to complicated and hard to read

I found some boxed dry ferts "j.arther bowers" at the garden center is it possible to use them as they are only £2.99 and easy to obtain.

How dose the EI method relate to large tanks (Volume: 990 l./218 gal) i think a 50% water change every week would kill me.

If not he EI method how would you go about maintaining a tank that size , any info or links would be helpfull.

thanks in advance

simon

 

[zig]

Simon im not really sure about the fertiliser you have seen in the garden center, unless its Potassium nitrate and Mono potassium phosphate and nothing else added then it will be ok, if your not sure i would'nt buy them, a lot of fertilisers used for gardens will contain urea, its a type of ammonia and will obviously be very bad for your fish.

The ferts in the links are really cheap anyway, so it might be better to be safe than sorry.

Just a couple of questions

What are the dimensions of the tank, height width etc

What type of lighting are you useing at the moment, how many watts and what type of tubes.

How are you doing water changes at the moment and how often do you do them.

I know from reading on other plant forums that people use EI on very large tanks, the 50% water change each week is a kind of safety mechanism so you dont overdose any of the ferts, but it is not set in stone that you have to do this, you could make smaller water changes on a regular basis and you may just have to test a bit more than someone doing 50% water changes weekly.

But there are other options, you could consider a lower light tank and grow low light plants and these would'nt require regular water changes, dont forget EI is really for highlight tanks and will require pressurised co2 in your case, and in a very large tank will require quite a bit of maintainence, lower light may be the way to go.

I dont have any experience with very large tanks and EI other than what i read, but maybe others can help you out a bit more, i know Yenko another member here has a large tank and he is useing a different method for his planted tank, maybe he will reply to your post as well.

But it can be done, i guess it depends on the amount of maintainence you want to carry out on a weekly basis, i would say you would be getting your hands wet quite often on a tank that size.

 

[simonbrown403]

I,m still in the planning stage , i was thinking of a 6'*2'*2.5' or there abouts.

I,m building it all myself from start to finish, plywood tank built in stand, probably metal halide pendent lights, i was thinking of a sump type filter? and a automatic water change system, which would probably be on a constant drip feed with minralized R/O, but i,ve not quite worked out the logistics of it yet.

My origanal plan was a amazon bisatope, but am drawn to amados lovely planted tanks like the pic below.

Maybe i should stick to the origanal plan and have a go at amado style tank in something a bit smaller, learn to walk befor i can run so to speek

 

[zig]

Yeah if you had a smaller tank that would be a great idea to begin with, it would give you a good feel for different plants, how they grow etc, and also allow you to get familar with EI before you tackle something a lot bigger.

The only thing i would say about the proposed large tank is that 30 inches high will make it very hard to do maintainence unless you have really long arms, and make it a bit harder to light but the MHs should help a lot there, but again i have seen 30inch high planted tanks and it can be done, 24 inches high is probably a better size, anyway just something to keep in mind.

I make tanks myself, im thinking of something large myself, but havent quite decided yet, but not as big as yours.

Anyway if you want to try EI im usually on here most days and will give you a hand no problem if you get stuck, its gets addictive so you have been warned.

 

[simonbrown403]

Yeah if you had a smaller tank that would be a great idea to begin with, it would give you a good feel for different plants, how they grow etc, and also allow you to get familar with EI before you tackle something a lot bigger.

The only thing i would say about the proposed large tank is that 30 inches high will make it very hard to do maintainence unless you have really long arms, and make it a bit harder to light but the MHs should help a lot there, but again i have seen 30inch high planted tanks and it can be done, 24 inches high is probably a better size, anyway just something to keep in mind.

I make tanks myself, im thinking of something large myself, but havent quite decided yet, but not as big as yours.

Anyway if you want to try EI im usually on here most days and will give you a hand no problem if you get stuck, its gets addictive so you have been warned.

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Thanks i,m certain i will be need some help in the near future

the reason i,m thinking of making the tank 30" instead of 24", is i was worryed about it becoming a letter box, with the wooden rim on the front.

 

[simonbrown403]

just found some insperation, a low light solusion

http/www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/index.p...&wrap=Portfolio

 

[Yenko]

I'm using a modified sort of EI method for my 70 gallon tank - I change 20 gallons of water weekly. I only add ferts to the replacement water; I use this PMDD fomula:

1 Tbsp (~9g) Chelated Trace Element Mix
(7% Fe, 1.3% B, 2% Mn, 0.06% Mo, 0.4% Zn, 0.1% Cu, EDTA, DTPA)
2 Tsp (~14g) K2SO4 (potassium sulfate)
1 Tsp (~6g) KNO3 (potassium nitrate)
2.5 Tbsp (~33g) MgSO4.7H2O (fully hydrated magnesium sulfate, aka epsom
salts; omit if already present in trace element mix)
300mL distilled H2O
0.5mL 9M HCl (optional)

(Most of the ingredients can be purchased at hydroponics shops or garden supply stores. Epsom salts are available inexpensively at pharmacies)

Dissolve the trace element mix in 150mL distilled water, then add the remaining ingredients. Pour in additional water to make 300mL solution. The HCl helps prevent the growth of fungus and may be omitted if the mix is kept in the refrigerator. Add enough mix to the tank every day to keep the Fe level at about 0.1ppm (the exact amount will have to be determined by experimentation, but 3mL per 100L tank water is about right for a tank with rapidly growing plants). Measure nitrate levels regularly, and adjust the amount of KNO3 in the mix to maintain 3-5ppm (this step is fairly important). Those concerned about adding nitrates to their aquarium can dose the KNO3 separately, omitting it initially and adding it later as required to obtain the desired concentration.

The shelf life of the solution is unknown. Make small batches, or store only dry powders (but mix them with water before adding them to the aquarium).

If test kits are not available, satisfactory results can be obtained by adding 1mL mix to 10L replacement water during water changes. 


I'm getting a bit of alage growth; I think this is just an initial bloom and will die down. I have 160W of T12 light, and maintain about 10ppm CO2 with a yeast system.

Eventually I hope to go to the EI system Gf255 reccomends; it's going to be tough changing 60 gallons of water a week, but the results should be worth it. The ferts for that method are not expensive even in the quantity I'm going to be blowing through them - a months supply costs about 25 cents.


At the moment I'm growing some very nice crystalwort, H. Difformis, H. Polysperma, Water hyacinth, Corkscrew val, and some unidentified plant - whatever it is, it's pretty, and grows very well. I'm getting some hair alage growth, but nothing too unmanagable.

I also have a bit of green water, but I plan to purchase a freshwater mussel at the LFS - you wouldn't belive how fast those guys clear water (Just look at the lakes in Ontario infested with zebra mussels - crystal clear).

 

[simonbrown403]

Thanks yenko, its nice to here it from the horses mouth so to speek.

I,ve a lot fo reading and a long way to go to reach my target, getting there is most the fun.

 

[zig]

A quote from the guy who came up with the Estimative Index as regards water changes, the method is very flexible and can be tailored to suit anybody really.

There is no hard and fast rule here when dosing or doing 50% weekly water changes. This method can be applied to water changes once a month or once every two weeks, better more consistent results will be obtained when doing 50% weekly water changes, but a well run tank can go longer without a water change. The aquarist can note plant health and dose slightly less as they gain experience of their individual tank's needs. As they get a feel for the dosing they can tailor the tank's needs further.

 

[simonbrown403]

A quote from the guy who came up with the Estimative Index as regards water changes, the method is very flexible and can be tailored to suit anybody really.

There is no hard and fast rule here when dosing or doing 50% weekly water changes. This method can be applied to water changes once a month or once every two weeks, better more consistent results will be obtained when doing 50% weekly water changes, but a well run tank can go longer without a water change. The aquarist can note plant health and dose slightly less as they gain experience of their individual tank's needs. As they get a feel for the dosing they can tailor the tank's needs further.

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Sounds promising, do you have any links zig i can have a read of.

Just been looking into automatic water change systems, i,m going to plum a drain and have the waste runing outside.

I,m trying to find info on dosing to maintaine mineral balance R/O right etc, would you fill a large tank underneath and get the PH KH GH right or could you make a solusion up and add it as you would your ferts?

 

[simonbrown403]

I think if i could't go full on planted maybe something like this, simple but realy prity

 

[zig]

This is the only site or forum i know of that has a section on large planted tanks over 180 US gallons, unfortunatly there are not that many threads in this section but definatly worthwhile reading through each one and gleen any info you can, look out particularily for any replies by the guy with the name plantbrain, he is Tom Barr the planted tank guru who came up with the EI method and basically anything he writes you should pay special attention to.

Most of these guys would be useing EI in that section.

The origional quote i gave you was from Tom Barrs origional article on EI, its not aimed specifically at large tanks, my own effort is probably a bit easier to understand, anyway have a look at this site and if i come across anything else i'll post it here.

As far as i know if you have a tank with a sump people would dose the ferts into it rather than directly into the tank, and also other Kh Gh additives etc.

Large planted tanks

But like i say there isnt that many threads but it may give you some very good ideas for your own setup.